Lack of sarcasm on your part?

 

Wow.

I go out of town for a few days and this nice little thread got way OT. It's like "My dad can beat up your dad."

If I were in the market for a race car, I would have different selection criteria. Why buy a street car based on results of a race car that happens to have the same logo? Are people loyal to abstract feel/history/pedigree of brands moreso than the objective reality of the car in question? Are we talking art/fashion/image or engineering/performance?

For me, I care about how cars perform out-of-the box (although I'll admit that ability to mod is a factor). I also care about how fast / fun the car will be for ME to drive on street and track-- not so much about bleeding-edge tests with pro drivers doing 11/10ths laps for days and then picking the best one as the reference lap. That's kind of why I actually think Mag tests are interesting, because their results are more real-world since they only have time to do a few laps with each car.

Anyway, in 1593 posts and 107 pages, no one has provided a scrap of evidence to contradict a few simple points that are actually relevant to the topic:

1. GT-R is faster than 997TT in stock form around virtually all tracks;
2. Based on power/weight disadvantage, Point #1 also reveals that the GT-R has some pretty special technology vis-a-vis engine/turbo/diffs/AWD/VDC systems;
3. The price/performance equation for the GT-R is a notable achievement and hopefully will push the whole market toward further innovation that will benefit all of us.

The concerns about running costs and potential tranny fragility are legitimate, but only time (and not forum posts) will tell how serious those issues are long term.

To all the GT-R haters: please go drive one hard and report back.

To all the 997TT haters: please go drive one hard and report back.

 

Yeah, yeah, the best thing you can come up with is i'm using wiki. Just answer my post will ya, what stock cars can you think of that would run circles around those supercars that i have listed. The ZR1 and the ACR has already been mentioned.

 

my point which you obviously missed was that you do not know what you are talking about. the 911 is the most successful sports car in history and has won more races than any other sports car. it has more class wins in both LeMans and American Lemans than any other car and it's engine has won more races and is the winningest engine in history. so whatever you want to say, the 911 still dominates and proves it by winning the manfrs title every year in lemans and american lemans.

 

And when did i ever disputed that or even mentioned it at all. We're simply talking about which is a better engine configuration. Would you like me to insert it for you?

 

Excellent point and i totally agree, except for the "my thinking is not relevant". But it doesn't change the fact that a mid engine sports car has better weight distribution/balance.

 

HC, you probably know the answer to this. Is it safe to say that the EDO 996TT that ran the 'ring in 7:15 was a street legal race car? I think I read that somewhere.

 

Here are two different list of fastest laps in The Ring, one mentioned the Edo but the other didn't. I'm almost sure it was street legal if memory serves me right.
http://www.fastestlaps.com/track2.html
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073

 

http://www.edo-competition.de/Porsch...16.0.html?&L=2

Edo Porsche 996 GT2 RS:

CARRIAGE
<hr> Aerodynamics

• Front spoiler & fronts skirting in kevlar fibre (CFK) designed for 3 radiators with outlet ports in the soft hood

• Integrated brakes cooling duct made from kevlar fibre (CFK)

• Air emission outlets of the radiators left and right lead to optimal cooling outside

• specifics: Aoerodynamics also cause both the outward dispersal of heat both from the brakes and from the radiator.

• Air deflector for better incoming airflow of the outer radiator.

• Front spoiler: goes to the steering gear; therefore encases the front end completely, this leads simultaneously to better through current of the lower air

Doors

• Light contruction doors, weight per door 5.5 kg (Serie 30 kg) with Makrolon light weight panels, green coloured and double sided sliding windows

• Custom designed quick-opening door handle side fender

• Widening rear made out of CFK for rims 13 xs 18" wheel tire combinations

• Front fender for rims 11 xs 18" wheel tire combinations

• Interior
  the wheel housing caters for 13" wide wheel tire combinations with optimal suitability for slicks & rain tires

Tailgate

• Rear bumper made out of CFK is specially for 13" wide wheel tire combinations
  and for slicks & rain tires. In the rear bumper are lateral air retirement openings are integrated air outlet ports whcih remove warmth of the air cooler.

• Rear bumper downward drag with pipe-in-pipe exhaust system optically integrated
  engine hausing cover with rear spoiler.

• Version 1: Airfoil (spoiler) "boomerang" in CFK engine housing cover-
  Has became with the GT 2 Karosse an adapted, integrated air duct for engine air extraction.

• Version 2: Airfoil (spoiler) "Le Mans" length 186 cm - removeable(Gourny-Flap) made from CFK for racing.

Panes

• Specially prepared Makrolon ® door panels, rear panels, side panels. Green tinted with balck edges (Weight recuction 18 kg)

CHASSIS
<hr> Chassis suspension

• Sports chassis consisting of gas pressure dampening with twin springs and universal ball-storage for our 3 setting adjustable race sport damper we use adjustable 1 step and press (low and high speed separately) tube gas pressure damper with balance container

• Stabilisers (front und rear) adjustable

• Altered steering gear ratio (around 50% more direct turning than in production series)

Braking system

• Brembo-Braking system with 4-channel-ABS

• Front axle:
  brake disc diameter 380 mm, perforated 4- pluger brake calliper with Racing sport lining und mit zirkonium oxide piston insert for optimal Barake pressure performance at all Temperatures
  Rear axle: brake disc diameter 350 mm perforated 4- pluger brake calliper with Racing sport lining und mit zirkonium oxide piston insert for optimal brake pressure performance at all Temperatures

Wheel / tires combination

• 3-section Aluminium alloy rim with forged wheel spider(custom made)

• front axle: 235/45 ZR 18

• rear axle: 315/30 ZR 18

TRANSMISSION
<hr>

• "GT 2 R" -race transmission with stiff suspension

• Transmission 9:31 with steel synchronisation rings

• reinforced pressure plate

• special race clutch

• GT1 differential lock

• gear shift lever (customised) with integrated reduced gearstick movement

• reinforced shaft

MOTOR

• Basis: Water-cooled 996 GT 2 Engine with 3.6 Ltr. Cubic capacity performance:
  612 HP / 6.790 U/min

• Torque: 785 Nm / 4.300 U/min

• Revised exhaust system

• Revised turbocharger

• Revised exhaust manifold

• Abgasanlage mit integrated catalytic converter

• Modified engine electronics and steering

DRIVE DATA

Accelerations of...
0 - 100 km/h in ca. 3.5 s
0 - 200 km/h in ca. 9.5 s
0 - 300 km/h in ca. 22.5 s

 

Better for what and why? How about we skip the b.s. and see if you know what you're talking about instead of doing searches. Give an accurate description of why mid engine is superior on the race track, exactly WHY the weight balance makes a difference. You may want include some knowledge of driving styles if you have any. Trail Braking, late apexing etc.

Instead of just spewing generic nonsense, how about some real racing etiquet talk here to see if you even touch a track or are stuck doing searches.

You talk about lambo and Ferrari being the only mid engine cars that race therefore there arent many results to show for it, WELL PORSCHE IS THE ONLY REAR ENGINE RACE CAR MAKER and yet still the 911 has more success than any mid ship GT platform.

 

no but you keep on saying the design does not work. If that was true, it would not be so successful. Kinda like Nissans advertising you totally missed my point.

What is more outdated, front or rear engine? check out the traction problems vipers and vettes have with too much power.

 

I never said the design does not work, don't make things up just to cover up your stupidity. Show me when and where i said that RE does not work.

 

It's in the same post that we said that RE is a better platform.


What's better is the car that's on the first step of the podium according to the rules of the class set in place. For F1, it's mid engine, always. For ALMS it was mid engine in 2007, Front engine for one year, and rear engine for all of the other 7 years. For GT1 it's front engine.

 

Nope, don't have much experience except for some local AutoX in parking lots. I got to drive my friends 996 and C5 Vette several times. In regards to ME cars, i've only driven the last two models of MR2's and a NSX. In the little time and experience i have with those cars, i say the ME cars are definitely more balance. Both 996 and C5 Vette where a bit too tail happy, but then again i'm not that experienced. But in comparison, both MR2's and the NSX where much easier for me to drive more agressive and i was lot more comfortable as well. But to be honest, it's not really a fair comparison considering the differences between those cars in weight and power. You ask why would the weight balance would make a difference, are you serious about that. So you don't think that if the 996 had a 50/50 weight distribution instead of something like 40/60 or the Vette with 60/40, you don't think that would make a difference. Especially for a non or minimal experience driver like myself, you don't think that would make a difference. C'mon HC, use some common sense, you can't be that stupid. Bottom line is, 50/50 weight distribution and the lighter car is makes it more balance and better in handling. Regardless how good or bad of a driver you are.

 

Me saying that ME is better is not the same as saying that RE does not work. Please show me and quote me. If i did said that RE does not work, then i'll gladly admit of that stupidity.