You blow me away with your wealth of knowledge. When factory Porsche races to win, they don’t do it in 911’s. They do it in mid engine prototypes. Cars like the 917 and GT1


Racing series in America are like the Special Olympics. You want to know what they were running with during those first Daytona wins? Cars like The Gremlin. That sure is a stunning victory! Those cars competing in the World Championship series, and in the Trans-Am series were not competing against anything special. The 935/934 was dominant for a reason. Skip ahead to current times, Porsche doesn’t even have a factory team! And if they did they sure as hell wouldn’t be competing with 911s! All of the 911s run in the slower gt2/3 classes with 911’s out numbering the competitors 8:1. Manufactures like Ferrari were busy back during the 70’s then with series like F1, rather then putting their effort into GT or prototype racing. I should send this whole thread into Porsche NA and let them know they have done a great job making the 911 look god like.


Nothing like the voice of experience huh?

USCCayman:

1970 daytona that good old 911 did win the gt2.0 class. But your memory must be hazy from the fumes only 27cars finished that race total. FOR THE GT2.0 class: 911s 14/27, MGB 20/27, MGB 21/27, 911s 24/27, 911T DNF,911T DNF,911 DNF, 911 DNS.


That sure was a great win for the 911 in 1970 at Daytona. As you can see there are no Ferraris, Lancia, BMW or Corvettes racing in that class. Only 911s and two MG’s. So…. What the hell are you talking about. The 917 did win, but that is not a 911 based car.


1971 Daytona the 911 ran in the GT2.5 class. Only 14 cars qualified in that class that year and only 6 cars out of that class finished the race. For the gt GT2.5 class: 914 7/20, 914 8/20, 911t 9/20, 911s 14/20, 911t 16/20, MGB GT 17/20, 914 DNF, 911s DNF, MGB GT DNF, 914 DNF, 911s DNF, Triump GT6 DNF, 911s DNF, 911 DNF, Alfa Romeo GTV DNQ, Lancia Fulvia DNQ, Volvo P1800 DNQ, 911s DNS, Ferrari Dino DNS, MGB DNS.

So in 71 a Porsche did win the over all as well as the GT2.5 class. But the 911 didn’t win anything! You sure where right, there was 1 Ferrari that did not even take part in qualifying, A Volvo same there, and a Lancia that also did not take part in the weekend. The Alfa did not qualify.


This is how Porsche races the 911!!!!!!!! In classes that are not the fastest, and amongst many other 911’s. Their only competitors are even slower then they are. The 911 is not what Porsche built its racing heritage on. They did that with prototypes! They wanted to market the 911 as the best of their cars even though it has a flawed design. In the 1971 Daytona example they were even beat by a 914. Why do the Boxster and the Cayman have weaker engines then the 911’s? Because if they had the same engines as the Carreras, gt3, gt2, and tt’s they would smoke them around a track. I have argued the fact that the 911 is not ultimate Porsche, be it road going or racing. But because of marketing and IGNORANCE you have all been taken.


MiniD: stupidest is not a word. Quit copying and pasting pictures from the internet and go ask you dad to tell you about Porsche as a design and engineering company. Their heritage rests in mid-engine prototypes, not old ill handling 911’s.


Heavy Chevy: Its called the Gt-1 class. The 911 doesn’t race in it because they would have their *** handed to them to the tune on 13 seconds a lap by teams such as Aston and Corvette. That is why teams competing in the Gt1 are going to drop down into the lower classes and make the 911 look obsolete. The 911 has mainly competed against other 911s over the ages.


Prche951: You just like to argue and misconstrue what I say don’t you? It doesn’t race in the fastest class so it better win once and awhile. I am guessing you know about the World Series, and how it may be called so even though it only takes place in America. Same thing with the ALMS which you are likely thinking of. The current ALMS teams competing against the 911’s are not as well funded or developed. In the FIA GT series the 911 didn’t win last year and it isn’t going to win next year. And the 430 is a relatively new car. The races in the US are not amongst the best in the world. But a closed minded American is nothing new!


I am just stating the facts, and I have argued how amazing the 911 is compared to the GT-R in previous posts. It has been developed for a ridiculous number of years so if it were not at the point it is today I would be shocked. The thing is they can’t do much more to make it faster. A great reason to hold it back to a lower class. I get everyone fired up when I call it slow, well it is compared to those GT1 cars.

 

oh yah you are so right...that is why porsche just doesn' show well

not in 2008 or 2007, 0r well ever

 

oh thed 2007 season, yes porsche 911 lost it toooooooo

 

Thanks. I'm pretty sure that I read a quote once that went a little something like

"it takes an absolute genius to extract the full potential from a Porsche"

911s and 'vettes generally get abused in comparison tests due to their unusual setup (porsche) and bad tires (vettes). Its reasonable for someone to call that a "flaw" of the 911 or Z06, but its also reasonable for someone to say "thats what makes it fun".

 

oh yah, let me repeat, one lap of america not a pro race, and a 911 turbo has owned it for 5 years in a row, not bad for old tech. Did I mention the GTR did not make it into the top 10

 

It also comes with a multiple page transmission replacement log. Each one of those replacements in the $20k range from what I have heard from the pist off owners of sub 4000mile cars. Technology and advancements are only great when they work and don’t have to be babied.

 

Do you ever read a full post or do you just get half way before childishly posing a comment that goes factually against what they just said? I would say you have the reading comprehension of a 1st grader but you’re definitely more of a brick wall!

 

no, like your online name, I am running at 19k rpm and have been missing a lot in the posts....but I am on meds right now for an injury so I don't even care in fact steriods and pain killers, so one makes me angry and the other makes me not care that I'm angry

 

That is what I get for trying to remember back over 40 years w/o Googling first to check facts. The point I was trying to make is that 911's have been racing and winning for a long time. The 911 does have four overall victories at Daytona. Also, the 935 and 934 are based on the 911, and these are certainly examples of a winning racing heritage. They may not all have been factory efforts, but it is a huge winning heritage that belongs to the 911.

 

What's the awd system got to do with how reliably the transmission is? The ATTESA-ETS was released on the R32 GTR way back in 1989 and has proven itself to be bulletproof.

You're also misinformed about the DSG gearbox problems, or lack of it on the GTR. I suggest you do more research. One more point, I can break any manual transmission, ANY. You name it - i can break it. Give me the car for 20mins and i'll return it with the transmision in pieces. Abusement doesn't work - in any form of technology.

 

I have evidence on the contrary. Before the GTR was released, 911's were winning performance tests left right and center in every magazine tests. I have yet to see any car receive as much praise from motoring journals as the 911 has.
Don't make up excuses for the 911. The design is a flaw from the get go. Porsche deserves credit for managing to make it as good as it is today. They can do better (Cayman?) but they won't cos of the loyal die hard enthusiasts who refuse to accept change.

 

You are selling the 911 short by a huge margin, that I can promise you. Porsche has the new DI motors coming, and if they can make the new technologydurable, the motors will have lost ~ 100 lbs. That's 100 lbs off the rear of the car and the total weight. They still have not used the PDK either. People thought the 911 was dead with the 996 because of the motor getting to it's limits. But here we are with DI and more power and less weight to tap in to. And I bet by the time the DI is fully exploited there will be a V8 they can cram back there.


Maybe you skipped over PRODUCTION CAR CLASSES, to use in comparing the 911 because you dont understand the differences in using chassis's that ARE NOT TUBE FRAME and that WILL PASS DOT STANDARDS FOR STREET DRIVING. DOT standards continue to get tougher and more stringent almost by the year , while racing does not.

So I'm still waiting on that GT class that's production car based that an RSR/Cup/Cup RS couldnt win.

 

BS. The Z06 was beating the TT and back and forth with the GT3. The handling of the 911 was still considered as twitchy mostly due to alignment settings that Porsche has been sending out in bad fashio all the way back to the 996 GT3 and GT2. It made the cars more tail happy, and unstable under breaking. This was a problem in mag tests and with owners receiving new cars. Once an alignment was done, night and day. The CGT too.

Maybe in all of your trolling, since you happen to be a Porsche enthusiast, you would have found that out...........


You could break one on purpose. But these people are not breaking the car on purpose. I bet you cant take a tiptronic Porsche and launch it 20 times and break it. I also bet you cant take any Porsche and it break on track because you turned the PSM off.

I guess Best Motoring abuse the GT-R's that broke down on them, since driving on track is abuse to. What about edmunds?

There are too many occurances to try and make it seem like every broken tranny is somebody who launches from the driveway and stops every mile in transit to launch again.

 

You are not informed enough about the problems with the GTR tranny. Evidenced by several factors.

1) You can't read about the number of incidents without LC being used that has exhibited problems with the tranny already. When we had two in ATL, GA while the NAGTROC boys were too busy bashing a Florida owner for using LC and saying it was a SINGLE case when it fact it was the 5th case by the time he posted. There are over 30 cases right now with various tranny issues. Don't do your sampling from online boards you will be WAYYYYY OFF!!

2) The new GTR R35 uses a modifed version of ATESSA released only since the R35 so the system is not the same at the R32. Wheel hop is also your big issue. Take away LC on a 1/4 run and it will be 0.3 to 0.5 seconds off the 1/4 run using LC. You know this. Also LC = very high chance of tranny warranty going bye bye.

3) Nissan is not blazing up the track circuit as much as I see it burning up the 1/4 tracks. Why is that?

4) Your hack proof ECU was hacked within one week of release and all of a sudden you have $1000 ECU hacks running rampant within 2 weeks. I have seen some of the results. A/R is slightly low at peak(Cobb Tuning)

5) High Cost Maintenance/Fluids. Strict adherence to the suggested flushes of fluids. Will get more and more common in complaints as people start to track it more often.

6) You could burn up a clutch and we can replace that PART not so much in the GTR Tranny as it is at the moment non-serviceable. In fact your precious Nissan Techs locally are not allowed to open it up. Crash course training will not get them up to speed and lack of actually working on the tranny will not help them learn will it?

7) Your RING GTR had VDC off yet Nissan said no to long term driving with VDC off? We have a case on here already with Me-Qwkr using VDC off for 6-10 mins and they told him voided tranny warranty.

8) Horrible business model to not even offer a new TRANNY to those who have busted it on their own! OH WAIT - they are back ordered and actually short of them. HOLD PRODUCTION!

9) Unprecedented in a few areas: 1) 1 week hacked ECU. 2) New Tranny Gears from 3rd Party to address the Non-Existent problem of the gears in the tranny within the 1st 4 months. 3) New Fluids to address the Non-Existent problems with the fluids in the Tranny. 4) 6K brake jobs if you don't want to risk voided warranty 5) Disclosures signed before you drive but perhaps the car you are buying MIGHT HAVE BEEN LAUNCHED before you bought it.

I type this with a chuckle as I still will entertain a GTR in the future but only if this list gets addressed and shorter.

Don't argue over the number of problems unless you know for sure. The people telling me have better reason not to tell me than to tell me.

 

have you not been reading the forums? Tranny's are breaking, there is pics on this thread of a tranny after 3k miles with damage already and no launch control used, so still under warranty. If the tranny is so bullet proof, then why are they voiding the warranty when you hit the launch control button on the dash, again, you need to read.