since they are not taking advertising money from Nissan, I actually do take some of the reports seriously. There will always be some chaff, but then again there are 2 owners of both cars here who prefer the 911 and one who has already sold his GTR. One racer local to me is reluctant to track his GTR anymore due to the costs and potential for catastrophic failure. As I pointed out before, I don't consider the car itself to be a disaster yet, but the corporate marketing is disingenious, the warranty support is absurd, and the fanfare from the worshippers has been nauseating.

Trommel have you been outcast by the PH?

 

You mean this?

http://2009gtr.blogspot.com/2008/11/...riveshaft.html

or love how the DIE HARD don't want to listen to anyone that has a question.

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26013

or the great Nissan Tranny fluids or not..

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26242

or the great time they spend hacking the ECU to get some great numbers but A/F ratios are ?... They need to tweak some more? Great guinea pigs batman! Let's release version 10 by the time we are done. v1 - v10 in a few months.

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26143

oh wait...v11..

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25497

track days oh tracks days...

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26362

 

What I do know is that a handful of cars have had issues, the maintenance costs have been hyped out of all reality and that if it had a Porsche badge on the front this forum would have melted down in a frenzy of smug self-abuse.

Have I what?

 

Handful? You are all the way across the ocean and you can sit on your computer and tell me that it is only a handful? Over 30+ cases of problems not all catastrophic but problems none the less. We know of 5+ that had warranty denied for failed trannies. How many times does it take for you to understand? ABUSE? You and the NAGTROC fanbase can believe all you want.

Funny how the GTR fanboys are running to get info on the upgraded TRANNY FLUIDS, GEARS, and TUNE without asking too many questions. Go ahead and give your money away to a tuner that is still testing and updating. Go ahead and void your warranty on a un-tested ECU tune and lose all your warranty. Go ahead and believe that Nissan has released a competitor.

Oh wait - its not a race car!

I never claimed it wasn't a good car I just got tired of the fanboys over-hyping a product in its infancy...

As I have said in the past and I will say it again.. Give it time we will see...

 

So ... a heavily-modified car breaks a driveshaft (a bit like a completely standard 996 Turbo did in Autocar's hands if I remember correctly).

Then, usual internet-land conjecture, rumour and panic.

Then someone trying to sell their own formula transmission fluid.

Next - problems with an aftermarket product unrelated to the manufacturer or car itself.

Lastly, someone messes with around with the brakes (clearly for the worse), boils the fluid and gets understeer on dead tyres.

I can quite easily post dozens of links to internet fora where owners Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, whatever, are complaining about breakages which aren't covered by warranty, issues caused by modifications and modifications which don't work as intended.

It would be as entirely pointless as your cut-and-paste exercise above.

 

I am no "fanboy", but I do know a good car when I drive one (as do 99% of the world's respected motoring journalists it seems).

Agreed.

 

I have driven both and know that it can't beat me stock from 30-120+ roll. But many would believe that it is a Z06 Killer too.

You obviously don't get the cut and paste exercise do you? A car you and so many mags claims to be so great has so many people questioning it and when they are inside the camp they are told its blasphemy and absurd. Yet at the same time they want all the info on NEW GEARS and NEW LUBE. Why so? Do tell...

Do you see Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari with ECU tunes out within the first 3-4 weeks of release? It is not like they had an old ECU to play with. Then its tweak and more tweaks. I saw the A/F Ratio very low to very high - COBB needs to test their tunes before they put it out to public. They are still tweaking as they are working with the ECU stages.

You will defend it as long as you can and it doesn't matter what others have to say you will continue to come on to a Porsche Board and defend the GTR not for its merits but for its flaws. No ONE car is perfect but at least it wasn't hyped to be so by other car manufacturers like Nissan. You don't see many of the TT owners running over to the Ferrari boards and saying my 130K Turbo beats your 280K Ferrari. It is about a given respect that Nissan hasn't earned yet but the fanboys just had to jump in and make it their own party on our boards. I haven't gone over their to laugh at them..

 

Me-qwkr, do a search.

 

you rang...

 

He was asking for a GT-R with a blown tranny that had been tracked and not launched.

From what I've read from your posts you fit that category. Correct?

 

correct... Never EVER LC my car.. LC is lame anyways

 

I am not a 911 apologist and certainly as I didn't design the 911 or the GT-R I don't have any excuses to make. Whichever car is better or worse in whatever area isn't my credit or my shame.

I'm not the most avid follower of magazines, but I can think of several cases wehre I do feel that the 911 got the short end of the stick in a comparison test involving track times.

1. a british mag test where they tracked a GT3 against a GT-R and an M3. Each got one hot lap and out. The mag stated in the youtube vid that the GT3 could have gone faster with warmer tires and noted that its PSCs needed heat to grip. That one left me shaking my head a bit as to why, if they knew they had a flaw in the test, they ddin't just do a better test.

2. Car and Driver Lightning Lap. The 911 turbo was quite a bit slower than the 400hp C6 one year. Don't get me wrong, 'vettes are great and underrated cars, and I own a few of them and I love c6s, but I doubt that if each car was driven to its potential a standard C6 w/400hp could beat a 480hp 911 Turbo. The Porsche has better tires (a BIG advantage for it), better power/weight, AWD, and is certainly a well designed track car. But it lost by quite a bit (Several seconds I believe) to the standard Vette.

I don't buy that a 997tt is considerably slower around a track than a standard C6, and plain and simple I offer my opinion that the 911 was not driven as close to its potential and this is the reason that this result was given. I'm sure there are more examples if I thought about it, but those 2 are fine.

Kudo's to Nissan if they have made a car that the average joe can drive to the limit easily, that is a unique thing and an interesting proposition. But that DOES NOT make Porsches or Z06s or anything else any less good. DOES NOT

 

I have one in my garage. Not sure what "hyped potential" is-- I have not taken it to the Ring, but have done a few LCs, several track days, etc.

 

Alignments were mentioned above, and I feel that changing the alignment is, like tires, absolutely not making the vehicle non-stock. Its an alignment, 100% of cars have an alignment done over their life, and no alignment can ever be perfect from the factory, because different alignments are better for different uses. Presumably in a rear wheel drive car meant for drag racing, you'd want the rear tires flat and perhaps the fronts cambered to reduce forward drag. For driving in twisties or on a track, a proper alignment with appropriate camber can completely change how a vehicle feels to you. Big, BIG difference.

Alot of what you read in magazines boils down to alignment. This car is twitchy or a that car is sloppy or another car has bad steering input. Alignment can go farther towards changing these traits than you'd think. This will give advantage to whatever manufacturer is most closely babysitting their test cars.

 

So you've driven one, and all you can say about it is in relation to how quick it is in a straight line?

Nature of the beast, with the reputation of previous GT-Rs responding so well to tuning (for which you can probably blame the PlayStation generation). However, Porsche remaps certainly seem to appear as quickly.

I was originally aware of this forum because I'm interested in Porsches (and have been giving a used 997 Turbo some thought over the past few months).

I haven't seen any posts, anywhere, where GT-R drivers are bragging about beating more expensive cars. If there are any, that's a problem with the owners and not the car.

Notional respect counts for nothing, facts speak for themselves. There aren't many facts in circulation about the GT-R's purported problems.

If you are a car enthusiast I do not see how you can not like (or at least respect) the car, especially if you have driven it. Getting upset because Nissan may have made a better car than the venerated Porsche just suggests that you're hung up on perceived status, and that's not what being an enthusiast is about.