Nobody is arguing that the GT-R is a good car and a deal for the asking price. What we are saying is that does not have the 'soul' of the 911, which is a combination of superb engineering and speed. I know of several inexpensive cars that can beat both the 911TT or GT2 as well as the Nissan, but that does not mean that I want to use them as a daily driver oe even track cars...

 

LOL, dont worry bro, I've pointed those same issues (and many more like them) from the magazines.

The british mag test was rubbish. They did a one lap test in 30* weather when sport cups say specifically not to use them at those temps. And then did one lap on top of that.

Interesting about the lightning lap is that the Z06 got to run 3 times, the C6 ran almost 6 seconds slower the previous year and had problems so they tested it again. Same for the GT500 which ran an IDENTICAL TIME TO THE TT on it's second try because it had problems the first time. The Porsche TT had some problems and we have yet to see it back. But the same time as a GT500 is a waist of driving time and ink.

Also the GT3 had some big aftermarket wheels on the car and the rules say unmodded production cars. I'd bet money this was someone's personal car that was lent to them and they made extra special care not to harm it, hence it being so slow when any other time it's right on the heels if not ahead of the Z06.

Once you weed out all of the tests that are pure garbage, then you ask yourself if there have really been any legit mag tests.

 

I'll give you a 3rd one that's pretty bad IMO. Car and Driver's comparison test between tge GTR, M3, & 997tt. M3 won and the Porsche got penalized for price and back seats. The M3 is a great car, but it's not even remotely close to the 997tt at any category. So why even compare the Porsche with the M3 if it's not in the same price range or size and then penalized it.

 

You are truly lost when you say "better" because nothing points to it as being better. Interior is inferior, the tranny is inferior, the fit and finish is inferior and the straight line speed is inferior. So what is better? Do not shout out from your soap box at me about not respecting the GTR as I have been a fan for many years but I know what is "better". Oh yeah - SERVICE from Porsche is SUPERIOR!

I didn't mention anything about handling because I never said anything negative about it. I rides rough as a daily driver most due to the run-flats. Even in comfort mode it is harsh to say the least and I am use to stiff suspension but the run-flats do not do it justice.

I also mention straight line speed because the few owners I know all talk about 1/4 times and light to light racing. Hmmm and then when I speak to Porsche guys its mostly about when are you taking it out to the DE events or tracking your car? Funny how that goes.

I do not discount the bang for buck as long as I know I am not the one getting BANGed by Nissan. If Porsche did the same thing I would be all over it. I drove the PDK and they told me I can launch it. They said that it will carry a warranty knowing I will launch it. Funny how the GTR boys talk down to everyone who said the had a tranny failure and said it was abuse. Well NISSAN wake up you allow for a 4500K drop clutch launch instead of a 6500RPM feathered launch (PDK) and you wonder why it has problems. Also wheel hop doesn't help the driveline.

Chrisn - speaks from one perspective and I speak from another. I never questioned his choice and he definately feels more comfortable in the Nissan to drive it faster, enter in deeper and exit faster. I would too because the Turbo takes a lot more experience to master but the reward is much greater. I feel more connected to the Turbo and I have driven the GTR hard but it doesn't feel as connected and HEAVY(oh wait it is).

I have said that I would own one and that hasn't changed. I am letting time determine if that will happen and see where Nissan is with their warranties.

 

Guys, Alpine 997 is full of crap.

 

They still allow you to post?

I VOTE BAN MINID!

 

What she said!

 

Well, that's safe isn't it? You guys brag about how the GTR does at a few weekend events when in fact we will never know whether it comes down to drivers or not. When someone says race it professionally and make it prove itself, you say "It isn't a race car." Nissan sure plays it up as one, running it at the ring and claiming that it runs ridiculous times. Many, many non-race cars run at the 'Ring 24. The Cayman is not a race car either but it did pretty damn well at the 2007 'Ring 24 running under controlled conditions so everything is fair.

If you don't race it professionally it will never establish itself as legitimate on an international level. Hell, bring on the V-spec.

 

Why the hell race road cars then?

 

Oh that hurts! And by golly, when you type "USC", capitalize it!

 

See. It shows how ignorant people are in this thread. (Not you, Cayman)

 

Dat's OK, I know I'm ignant!

 

On an objectively-assessed basis, much of the car is better.

The transmission is light-years ahead of either a manual or Tiptronic, which is why everyone else is also introducing dual-clutch transmissions.

Styling is subjective (and it's never going to be a favourite of mine), but the general fit and finish is about on par with a 997 and leagues ahead of a 996.

Straight line acceleration has generally been shown to be quicker than a 997 Turbo in most measured increments.

I can see that the dealer experience leaves something to be desired in the US. I'm hopeful that won't be such an issue in the UK; we shall see.

The USP of the car is the total composure of its handling and accessibility of its performance - the combination of the rock-solid stability, very high cornering speeds, excellent traction and the dual-clutch transmission. If US owners are more interested in drag racing, I think they're missing the point but that isn't a reflection of the car's abilities.

It's 4WD, it's powerful. Something has to give if you are constantly launching it hard from standstill. Nissan should have realised that US owners would do this all the time and either water-down the launch control (like BMW) or not include it all (like Ferrari). They didn't, and now the internet is awash with rumours they need to take some action to sort out.

I would have liked more steering feel from the GT-R (the R32-34 were excellent for 4WD cars in this respect), but on the other hand the Turbo offers nothing like the feedback that something like a Mk I GT3 does. I'll reserve judgment until I've driven one more on real roads. I think the gearbox also takes an element of interaction away (see PDK and evo magazine's Most Disappointing Product of the Year), but the benefits massively outweigh the negatives. In this respect, the Turbo is definitely not the car to be making comparisons with, because it's no Caterham.

Both GT-R and Turbo are great cars, so why all the bad feeling? Pay your money, take your choice.

 

The British test where Harris drove the GTR, M3 and GT3 was a fair test. Each car had a warm up and then a flyer. No car had more laps than the other. If you're claiming that it was unfair on the Porsche because it's tires didn't get to temperature, then tough luck. Those were the conditions that day and each car had to show its versatility. Too bad if it favoured one car over the other. It would be impossible to stage an event where no car would gain an advantage over the others.
The same can be said for the GTR, it is at a disadvantage since Harris has never driven one before - but he had numerous experience in the GT3 and M3. And the track was more suited to the GT3 than it would the GTR. We can go on all day about this but the fact remains - the GTR is a very good all round car which does well in ANY track and in ANY weather conditions.

 

I don't know, why race road cars?

Perhaps because if they do well, there's a halo effect for the road cars?

Perhaps because the rules of certain series encourage it?

Perhaps because it's cheaper and encourages more entrants?

I'm not naive enough to think that because there are lots of 911s running around tracks the next Cayenne is going to be a better car.

There are lots of 911s racing because they have been developed by the factory over many years to be very effective, and both factory and independent support is excellent.