LOL, my friends list is growing by the minute.

The fanboys have quieted down now (at least temporarily). It seems if we keep one thread in this section that they can argue and show us their great LACK of knowledge, then we wont have to put up with ten GT-R threads up and down the list. It seems the GT-R section hasnt remedied anything.

 

Count me in as an HC fan! He's one of the few who posts on here who knows what he is talking about. I'l buy one of those T-shirts!

 

This fanboy has been on a flight for 18 hours, but now am online.

I tried to scan the recent posts, but didn't see any reply to the core Nissan lying issue.

HC or others: Do you think Nissan lied about the 7:38 lap that they print in their owners manual?

No one seems to have taken up my offer to do another test. Have to be a lot of stock TTs on Norcal on the board.

I'll be at Thunderhill again on 10/10 if anyone is game.

We'll have to figure out the methodology in order to take out the driver as a factor--- obviously skill matters more than car.

I'm not particularly hung up about the precise 'Ring times (I have never driven the ring and prob never will. If I do, I'll prob turn a 10:00), but I find it implausible that Nissan would willfully defraud potential buyers with a blatantly false claim, and that the grand conspiracy would extend to dozens of other independent organizations ---- and even to me. I didn't even know I was part of the conspiracy.

 

Chris,

you are going to enjoy the car no matter what, so the issue is moot to you. However since Nissan has fibbed before on the R32 and got caught, most veterans of the automotive industry are not likely to believe Nissan ever again.

 

You're right. Not sure why I care.

 

Nissan made porsche go buy a gtr and see for themselves oh yes victory for nissan!!!! oh and i'm back oh yes!! i see heavyhamilton is still talking pooooooooooo!!! ha ha ha

 

Yes, because it was so obvious that Nissan was lying about the circumstances (or at the least leaving out key facts) under which the record was set. Nissan has made such a big deal about eclipsing Porsches times on the 'ring, so Porsche has every right to call them out when they smell a rat.

 

Have you instrumented your car, or run it in the 1/4? It would be interesting to know if you got a "fast one"... According to drag times, stock customer cars are trapping anywhere from 12.0 @ 115 to 11.5 @ 122. The latter is probably a 440 whp car, while the former is more like 350 rwhp car- over 100 horse at the crank difference...

I suspect that Nissan did what Ferrari has done for years- everything within factory tolerances, but at the very upper end. So the alignment, boost, tires were all "stock", technically, but you'd never get a car off of the showroom floor with everything set that ideally and working that well. Then Porsche comes along, buys one of the ~400 whp "average" cars with everything in the middle of the range and says "no way"... Which is probably what's also going to happen when others try to re-create the record lap. It's perhaps dirty pool on Nissan's part, but remember that Ferrari and others have been doing the exact same thing for years...

I do like the fact that Porsche's do what they say on the tin- porsche has tight tolerances, dynos every motor, and they will send back any that are making too little (or too much!) power. And the release middle of the road performance specs, so the average driver can expect to hit their 0-60 times, etc.

That said, I still believe the "average driver" and probably even a good driver, is going to be faster in a GTR than a TT on most tracks. Especially if you get a "fast" gtr... but then you'd need to be pretty pissed if you got a slow one...

 

still there's no official documents or proof that Nissan cheated, all that you have is some kind of assumption based on official videos. And you dont want to take into consideration all the engineering and innovation work that was put into GTR. I dont think they stupid enough to cheat, I think what they did is run after run they probably recorded the data and looked where can they go faster ETC. Where porsche just run the car around had they time and were done. It would be interesting to know how many times did GTR ran around the ring versus 997 tt.

 

Guys, the fact that Porsche don't have any proof of the 7:54 run they did, then Porsche's claim is just as bogus as Nissan's claim of only 485hp. Again, i find it harder to believe that the GTR would only do 7:54, that's just absurd. And also, it's more believable for the GTR to run 7:29 because the GTR is under-rated and it's probably running with 550hp. So if there is anything that they are lying about, it is only the HP rating. The 7:29 video run is enough proof, IMO.

 

I am tired of the whole GT-R v. TT argument. No offense guys, but the performance differences between the cars, regardless of which is "faster," are less than the driving ability of nearly everyone who owns these cars can expose. So stop acting like we even need to prove which car is "faster." It comes down to which you like more, which is a decision to be made by each consumer. I personally would never buy a GT-R, but that decision is entirely unrelated to media hype about which car can beat which by a few seconds when driven by professionals on a track that I will never see.

 

I gotta admit - work's been kind of slow and my Mets choked again, but I have been thoroughly entertained by this thread.

Have we determined yet that there has been an OFFICIAL statement from Porsche, or was it just one guy speaking to a reporter?

Took a look at the n'ring link and it is quite shocking to see some of the cars that the GTR beat - Pagani, K'segg, F430 Scud, CGT. I don't care if the GTR beat their times while going backwards, on flat tires - I think I'll take one of the other cars

 

Totally true. We need to define two things here, though- "proof" and "cheating".

In my mind I've "proved" to myself at least that one of the stock cars that does 12.0 @ 115 could not have made that record run- with 350 whp there absolutely no way it beats the 600 hp viper down that straight. Now there are cars that are doing 11.5 @ 122 and making 440 to the wheels which are obviously much, much faster, and they were bought off the showroom floor. Could one of those have made the record runs? I don't think we've proved that beyond all doubt. I believe it's unlikely, but then again I'm sure the fastest stock GTR hasn't been tested yet- given the variation we're seeing there probably are 12.3/ 124+ mph cars out there, and those I could see making the record... The "proof" we're looking for will come over the next few months- you'll see many attempts with the GTR trying to prove or disprove Porsche's claim. If on-one gets close then we'll know, but I'll bet heavily that the "average" GTR doesn't get close.

Which brings us to number 2- what is cheating? Is shaving the stock tires cheating? Is testing 20 cars to find the fastest one cheating? Is setting the alignment up, within factory specs but optimized for the ring, cheating?

I think that's a judgment call, but I'll say it's clear that the times don't accurately reflect at least some of the customer cars (the poor guys who got the 12.0 @ 115 cars...).

I understand those that don't care for this debate and don't think it's important. Any "who's faster" debate is usually pointless unless you're racing for money. But given that this has become one of the more important overall performance yardsticks I'd personally like to know how accurate or not these claims are.

 

Also it has been stated in many reviews that GTR can take turns faster and easier then other cars? Because of awd and the down force, where for example tt would slow down or lift... so there is your second or so. And nuderburg ring is so long that with all the advantages I believe it could shave some time off.

Now i never been on the track and that is just my assumptions.
I just think too many people are skipping the engineering part of this car, Balance, down force,drag,smart awd,gearbox ETC. Couldn't it all add up in times?

 

In this article, you'll see that the GTR was able to virtually match the 997tt's and Z06's 1/4 mile performance. I believe the GTR did under 12 second at 120mph almost the same as the 997tt, but the Z06 was the fastest and quickest. The first time Car and Driver tested the GTR did similar numbers but with slightly higher top end at 124mph. The second test when they compared it with the M3 and 997tt was alot slower. But they did admit that when they tested the GTR for the third time, they where able to duplicate the same numbers from the first test. I'm not saying this is any proof whatsoever, i'm just posting more data from independent testers that have tested the GTR and 997TT.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6591
Nissan GTR:
Points: 386.6
Lap Times: 1:56.9

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6592
Z06 Corvette:
Points: 384.2
Lap Times: 2:02.2

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6593
911 Turbo:
Points: 380.7
Lap Times: 2:02.1