Given that Porsche's PDK works in exactly the same way as the GT-R's gearbox (just designed and built by ZF instead of BorgWarner/Aisin), will you be giving up on Porsche when the next GT3 and Turbo have these gearboxes?

Maybe, but you obviously rate evo Magazine's opinion as you mention them in your signature. Better change it given that the GT-R is now their car of the year ...

 

No, because Porsche's PDK will actually work, and you wont be limited on how you can drive it. It's not mandatory to keep the traction control on and you can launch it without voiding warranty no matter if the launch caused it or not.

Not to mention Direct Injection and a new motor are certain in the next GT3 and TT, but a PDK is not. Porsche enthusiasts are purists, they dont want a bunch of electroincs bells and whistles. The manual option will not go away any time soon. So he does not have to give up on anything.

 

The same Porsche enthusiast that joins a Porsche board and has not one post in a Porsche thread? In fact not one thread other than this one?

Do you really think anyone will buy that? At least be honest.

 

Of course not. PASM, PTM, PSM PDK, DFI ... There are as many electronic controls in a Porsche as any car you wish to name.

As for Porsche enthusiasts being purists, why are virtually all 911s Tiptronic? Why do I see so many C4S cabriolets? Most Porsche buyers are not car enthusiasts, full stop.

 

If Porsche enthusiasts are purists and will not settle for electronic bells and whistles, then why does the new 911 have PDK? Why did the 911 changed from air cooled to water cooled engine? Why does the new 911 range have LC, PSM, traction control etc..Why would the new motors have Direct Injection? Why? Aren't these the 'bells and whistles' that enthusiasts don't want in a 911?

 

You obviously can't read. I have driven one hard and straight line. I have raced it from a roll 30-120+ several times. Boy you are dense and here I was giving you credit for comprehension and reading ability.

On the track? You are clueless and please tell me when you are ready to enter in a turn that you will be focusing on your PS3? or when there are other drivers entering the same turn that you have time to look at your gadgets... Please stop now - no really.

LOL the noise to make it feel more analog? Where do you come up with this drivel? The noise comes from "standard" not "superior" build quality. Also your damn drive shafts are being sheared off maybe thats the noise. Oh wait since it is built in I guess the guys complaining about it at Nagtroc didn't realize it was made to sound that way to make them feel connected. Or perhaps the sound of the engine is actually from the PS3 Gran Turismo being turned on while they are accelerating?

Go home...

 

"Standard build quality"? Yeah.....right. DSG designed by Borg/warner is standard....i see your logic.

You make a lot of sense here, especially with the "Or perhaps the sound of the engine is actually from the PS3 Gran Turismo being turned on while they are accelerating?" comment.

No, i won't be looking at the display when i'm turning but i can look at it when i'm on the straight. Besides, it tells me relevant information such as oil temp, engine temp, boost, etc...etc... much more important than a fancy leather clad turbo interior will...

Go home? I'm at home dude. Where are you?

 

Way to throw out a bunch of abreviations and not know what you're talking about.

DFI is direct inject, how is that electronic control?????

PASM and PSM are two generations of ONE type of control, and only made it to the GT3 and GT2 recently mostly because of increasing safety standards and to reduce insurance rates and because people proved not to be able to handle them (hence the term widow maker). But the fact the the as recently as 2005, the GT3, GT2 and CGT had no electronic aids other than ABS.

PTM is traction control, and on everything other than a Viper, which is dying because dodge refused to refine it.

Owning a Porsche and being an enthusiast are two different things in case you didnt notice, some people buy Porsche for the name, badge and brand image, NOT BECAUSE OF THE HISTORY OR THEM BEING ENTHUSIASTS.

 

So you said 10% off, well here you go, let me quote you again. BTW, the reason i'm claiming 100hp more because at 457/.80 is equals to 571. And 20% of 571 is 457, hence the 20% power loss. Just in case you didn't know that. Remember, this are all speculation, guess, or theory, not a fact. I don't have facts on this and neither do you.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Heavychevy
20% loss???? Other than completely ignoring Nissans claim of only ~10% loss, 20% loss is rediculous for todays sports cars.

Explain then why the GT-R cant trap much if any higher than a GT3 and M6 which have similar power to weight ratios as a GT-R at 480-500 hp.

This mythical hp hasnt shown up anywhere. So there is NO support for the GT-R losing 20% through the drivetrain whatsoever given that the DSG tranny, from the VW to the Veyron etc, have all proved to lose less through the drivetrain than a normal manual.


Like I said, Motortrend are morons. THE GT-R DOES NOT LOSE 20% THROUGH THE DRIVETRAIN.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Here's another:
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by Heavychevy
For those mathematically challenged:

457/.90 = 507 hp
438/.90 = 486 hp


Like I said, you dont have a leg to stand on. 20% drivetrain loss is nonsense,
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Here's my respond to this one^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeS4
You base that calculation on 10% loss, again you don't have proof of that either. I believe it's about 15% to 20%.

457= 571 @ 20%
430= 538 @ 20%

457= 538 @ 15%
430= 507 @ 15%

It pretty much comes down to what you believe or don't believe. I'm not saying you're wrong and definitely not saying you're right. And the same goes with me. We're both speculating and guessing. Don't act like you know everything and you're not always right.

 

With respect to racing, I don't know anyway better way to prove who has the better reliability and engineering know how. Theoretically, the reason to hold any kind of competition is to show who is the best. Also, the better sanctioned the event, the more certain you can be about those factors leading to the results.

Competing at non-professional weekend events is like personal testimonial that you see in commercials. "I use Brand X and it made my cold go away in two days!" Testimonial is week because there are too many unknown variables. For example, perhaps the guy was already sick for 6 days and would have gotten better on the 7th day anyway. Maybe he actually had no bacterial or viral infection in the first place and just felt bad due to fatigue or whatever and he just happened to recover that day after taking the medication. When you conduct research using the scientific method, you learn very quickly that testimonial doesn't amount to a hill of beans, because too many variables have been left uncontrolled. So, you don't know if the outcome was really due to Brand X or not. Same thing with the weekend track event. Joe blow could say that he blew away Jake Lomotil on the track because he was driving the better car. Well, you really don't know that is the case. As said many times before on this thread and others, it may actually come down to driver skill or even cold tires.

Professional, scruitinized road racing is like doing scientific research. You are controlling as many variables as you can, so that those factors leading to the outcome are much more clear (this car keeps winning, so it is probably better built and engineered than the others). Also, it takes more than one scruitinized race to be able to say something about one car compared to the other. If one car wins much more often than the others, then it is probably the better car.

So, unless Nissan tries to prove the GTR on the race track, it will earn little international respect. So far all is has on it's side is subjective testimonial and pseudo-scientific journalistic roadtests. People think the GTR is hot because it has the duel clutch transmission (first developed and utilized by Porsche on the 956/962) and many other drivers aids (many first explored with the Porsche 959). As HC says, the only reason you don't see the PDK on a Porsche Turbo is because it really is not yet developed to the extent that it can handle the power. Nissan rushed there's out, Porsche waits until they have made it reliable before bringing it to us. My bet is that once Porsche brings it to us, the GTR will join the ranks of "also rans".

 

JaeS4:


What are you saying boy? There is nothing to repsond to. I havent said anything different from what I said before. The GT-R delegates 98% of the power to the rear wheels unless there is a loss of traction. It's essentially a RWD car on the dyno. So the 18-22% for yestertech AWD systems does not apply on the dyno.

Combine that with the fact that the dual clutch is more efficient than the DSG and you get it completely being possible that the GT-R loses less power than an M6 which even YOU admitted was a ~12% loss.

Oddly enough you can also use the M6 for accleration purposes because the max trap speeds are very close with the edge going to the GT-R because of less weight.

Your reasoning skills are aweful.

 

Well first of all you denied that you said 10% power loss that Nissan claims. So i showed you proof that you said it and believed it. And then you claimed that you said 10% off, not 10% loss, showed you proof that you did say 10% power loss. Why would you compare the M6's power loss if it is only RWD and BMW's are known to be very efficient in putting power to the ground and loses very little power to the wheels. Completely different drivetrain, completely different everything.

 

You are still lost!! Build quality has nothing to do with DSG! Boy are you really dense. Even more so than from my previous post. You can't see logic you don't know the definition.

BMW = DCT = DSG = PDK
NISSAN = DSG = DCT = PDK
VW = DSG = DCT = PDK
Porsche = PDK = DSG = DCT

So what is your point about standard build quality again?

Leather clad? Where do you get your vocabulary from? You can't polish a TURD as I mentioned before. So don't try all you will get is a handful of "****e".

So tell me MR. Wanna Be Enstein you are impressed with gadgets that tells you the oil temps, etc.etc on a screen as compared to an ANALOG gauge that has worked in most race cars for years? So your precious PS3 goes out what will you do? Guess? TOO FUNNY!

Go home as in leave and find another place to troll.

Boy are you weak in your come backs...

 

Most racing cars have had some sort of LCD display, or a combination of digital/analogue for years (just like pretty much every modern road car).

 

ANALOG and DIGITAL - I was referring to the PS3 display that he was speaking of...

Not speaking of a Motec system in itself. I know we have digital and analog. He was speaking of the PS3 display only. Gadgets gadgets gadgets displaying OIL, TEMP, Etc... refer to his comments before you reference mine.