Yep...warranty issues are now definately resolved...

BWaaaaaha ha ha ha ha ha ha...

 

I read a post on another forum somewhere or other where one individual threw out the thought that with all the controversy over the GT-R and the fierce loyalty of Nissan fans to the car that some guys would turn up with tuned cars and call them stock to put up better "stock" times to prove the merit of the car. Thats an interesting thought, and in line with human nature.

I don't mean disrespect to the car or Nissan fans at all, but if one or two cars are mysteriously fast "stock" its worth wondering if they are stock. The same would be true for any car of course.

 

Nissan was smart in removing Launch control. I'd rather give up half a second in the quarter than leave my tranny at the track.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this were true. Afterall, Nissan probably did the same thing at the 'ring to get that magic 7:29. And, you are so right. People take steroids to win sprints or body building competitions, cheat on tests, etc. in order to do better than they are truely capable of. It is human nature.

 

I know HC has posted a laptimes thread over on the 996tt section, so I think it would be great if the GTR guys want to post their laptimes thread - just to show how the GTR stacks up in real life. There is no shortage of Porsche laps known for each and every track in the US and abroad by non-pros.

 

I did a 2:05.7 my first time out at Thunderhill in the GT-R. This is mostly notable (IMHO) for being a decent time MY FIRST TIME ON THAT TRACK in the car.

Here a video with GPS telemetry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l416MYrJBIg

That was with the Potenza tires. I have since switched to the Dunlaps (supposedly stickier-- and the ones generally used in the reported GT-R track tests), even though they also have higher (better) wear rating (go figure).

For reference, I am usually faster than all but 3-4 (out of 18-20) folks in the advanced run groups (a casual DE crowd-- not serious racers).

 

Let me play devils advocate here. There are about 2500 GT-R's allocated for the U.S. market. More than 1700 spoken for and little over a 1000 delivered. Let's assume that NAGTROC is the place where the majority of GT-R owners would gather and where most our info about the car is sourced from. Even still not all of them. I'm willing to bet maybe 100 actual owners are on that site. So if there are a handful of VDC related postings, it sure is going to look like a lot of issues relative to the number of owners on that site. Alpine here has compiled a list of what, 10-20 transmission related issues with the GT-R. Now how many of those issues are from using LC and how many are from normal wear/tear/non-LC use, which definitely is substantially lower? If you look at the big picture here, these documented issues account for 2-3% of the delivered cars. We all understand what launch control does to the car and that is non-debatable. Owners still continue to track the car and drive it hard racking THOUSANDS of beaten-on miles; some have even run the strip using LC. Since the LC picture accounts for 2-3% of the delivered cars, how much of this can be attributed to driver error, negligence of proper break-in, and abuse as opposed to a weak transmission?

 

And no, don't bring up the warranty issue cause we all know how Nissan effed up with that one.

 

I think trying to get into the how or why is useless because it's all speculation no matter how you look at it.

However out of the 1000 delivered GT-R's how long has the average GT-R been owned? 5-6 months max, so about 2-3 months total. Not to mention a large portion of GT-R's have been bought and exported thereby voiding the warranty.

All in all it doesnt look good for Nissan either way.

The FACTS are that Nissan advertised improperly and left the dealer network in the dark which is why SEVERAL guys are reporting that they didnt sign the disclosures and the dealer taught them how to launch the car and even let them in some cases. So either way you look at it, the neglegence is on Nissan for trying to make a hush hush asset for the car without being liable for it.

Also a fact is that other car manufacturers do no require the same high levels of maintenance for their dual clutch transmissions. This points to a either Nissan over extending the abilities of what the DSG can handle so they have to constantly maintain it if driven hard with all the inspection and keep the traction control on , which conversely limits power and torque to the wheels and is obviously designed to protect the under-developed tranny. We dont see this limitation anywhere else.

Obviously Nissan has gotten enough complaints and problems to remove the entire LC feature for the WHOLE LINE, not just the US, so it's obviously big enough for that reason, and the problems arent limited to just the US, not to mention their faulty advertising hasnt left them a defense. So it's likely we have no idea how big this dillemma is, but we certainly know AT LEAST how big it is.

 

Anyway you look at it, Nissan should have known better.

 

+1



Nissan has already conceded this car isnt profitable, nor will it be. They still have lawsuits to face and if they have to warranty the 09' tranny, it can only go downhill from a profit standpoint.

So another check in the advantage TT column. Is profitable and worth what it sells for. Advantage Porsche.

You should be. A stock Z06, GT3,TT, GT-R etc. is more car than 99% of anything you'll see at a DE.

Go to the big events, where even the DE's are fast, and if you can say that, then you've accomplished something. But more than likely it will be a dose of humble pie. Show up to VIR Zone 2 and see if you are anywhere near the front of the pack. Other than the big event's its a crap shoot as to if even the advanced group will be very fast.

But in these caliber of cars, it's nothing to be at the front of the pack at a DE.

FWIW, a TTC (almost stock) 1988 BMW M3 runs 2:02 and 2:05 respectively CCW and CW. We've seen F1 crazy driver on crappy tires on the old pavement in a 996 TT run in that area. So being "towards" the front of the pack at the DE isnt neccessarily all that.

My first time running in a Porsche I was at the front of the pack, and I gained 12 seconds with only change being tires in 5 events.

 

Excellent point. Only 2-3% are having problems. But it's still no excuse for Nissan's deception about the LC and they better take care of that 2-3% with LC problems.

 

Hi folks, as you will have gathered from the picture below, last Tuesday we took a 911 GT2 (supplied by Porsche) and a Nissan GT-R (a customer car imported from Japan) over to the Nurburgring to test each maker’s claims and provide substance to the row between Nissan and Porsche. <o></o>
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Chris Harris was the driver and he drove each car for three laps (one out lap, and two flying laps). Chris successfully competed in the VLN race that weekend so was race-fit and needed no acclimatisation with the circuit. Naturally we recorded the laps on video and recorded the lap and section times on Racelogic telemetry. <o></o>
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We will be publishing the feature story (which we call ‘The Truth’) within our digital magazine and broadcasting the videos of each car’s laps, showing the times they recorded.

This will be live within the next few hours. <o></o>
<o></o>
This is as close as you'll probably get to an independent and unbiased validation of each manufacturers respective 'claimed' lap times so it will be interesting to see how the topic progresses after our results are published.

We are preparing a video story of the feature and the telemetry data will be available next week overlaid across the key parts of the track where each car showed their respective strengths.
<o></o>

 

Hmmmm, this should be interesting. How much experience does Chris have at the ring?

 

Wow, cant wait for this! Finally some closure for this topic