997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#1876
11-21-2008, 12:51 PM
hahaha... if gtr came within a minute of what gt2 ran, it ain't the truth! if chis harris ever mention gtr being fast, its a lie.
#1877
11-21-2008, 01:01 PM
Lots. He's raced in several Nurburgring 24r races, raced this full season in the German VLN championship (all rounds are held at the Nurburgring).
The conditions were damp, but every lap for both cars was under 8 minutes. And if you know how scary it is to drive the ring in under 8 minutes you can understand what that implies in terms of his experience.
#1878
11-21-2008, 01:08 PM
You should be. A stock Z06, GT3,TT, GT-R etc. is more car than 99% of anything you'll see at a DE.
Go to the big events, where even the DE's are fast, and if you can say that, then you've accomplished something. But more than likely it will be a dose of humble pie. Show up to VIR Zone 2 and see if you are anywhere near the front of the pack. Other than the big event's its a crap shoot as to if even the advanced group will be very fast.
But in these caliber of cars, it's nothing to be at the front of the pack at a DE.
FWIW, a TTC (almost stock) 1988 BMW M3 runs 2:02 and 2:05 respectively CCW and CW. We've seen F1 crazy driver on crappy tires on the old pavement in a 996 TT run in that area. So being "towards" the front of the pack at the DE isnt neccessarily all that.
My first time running in a Porsche I was at the front of the pack, and I gained 12 seconds with only change being tires in 5 events.
Go to the big events, where even the DE's are fast, and if you can say that, then you've accomplished something. But more than likely it will be a dose of humble pie. Show up to VIR Zone 2 and see if you are anywhere near the front of the pack. Other than the big event's its a crap shoot as to if even the advanced group will be very fast.
But in these caliber of cars, it's nothing to be at the front of the pack at a DE.
FWIW, a TTC (almost stock) 1988 BMW M3 runs 2:02 and 2:05 respectively CCW and CW. We've seen F1 crazy driver on crappy tires on the old pavement in a 996 TT run in that area. So being "towards" the front of the pack at the DE isnt neccessarily all that.
My first time running in a Porsche I was at the front of the pack, and I gained 12 seconds with only change being tires in 5 events.
Jeeze. Relax. You forgot to say my baby is ugly and my dog has fleas. I was providing real world data, as requested. The only cars to pass me that weekend were a 997GT3 on Hoosiers (I was faster than him at a prior event at a diff track when he was on MSPCs) and my buddy in 993TT. I was assuming that there were a couple of faster guys out there that did not pass me due to staging up differently.
Whatever.
#1879
11-21-2008, 01:12 PM
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I'm just putting everything into perspective. Winning a DE isnt saying much, I hold the same standard for myself.
#1880
11-21-2008, 01:13 PM
Lots. He's raced in several Nurburgring 24r races, raced this full season in the German VLN championship (all rounds are held at the Nurburgring).
The conditions were damp, but every lap for both cars was under 8 minutes. And if you know how scary it is to drive the ring in under 8 minutes you can understand what that implies in terms of his experience.
The conditions were damp, but every lap for both cars was under 8 minutes. And if you know how scary it is to drive the ring in under 8 minutes you can understand what that implies in terms of his experience.
If GT-R is close or faster:
"I heard GT-R was on slicks and was secretly tuned by owner, who is obviously biased. Plus, DR driver doesn't know how to drive a 911 and was scared in the wet."
If GT2 is significantly faster:
"This is the gold standard unbiased test we have been waiting for. Everyone knows that the GT2 is hard to drive in the wet, so this victory is more than enough to bury the GT-R and its fanboys."
#1881
11-21-2008, 01:21 PM
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I'm not making any excuses prior to, nor should you, let's see the data and analyze it, then we can decide. Unlike the DR silverstone test, this is Harris driving both cars, and that other guy who was driving for evo in the GT3 Vs GT-R test, and the GT2 at silverstone well, just look at that video. It speaks volumes.
However, if this is the same guys car that tested with Bruno Senna, and Car magazine, that car has mods on it. That same car has been featured in a few tests, some while modded. That needs to be clarified.
However, if this is the same guys car that tested with Bruno Senna, and Car magazine, that car has mods on it. That same car has been featured in a few tests, some while modded. That needs to be clarified.
#1882
11-21-2008, 01:32 PM
As I said before, one sparrow does not a summer make. You have to rack up win after win under controlled situations to build a reputation. That's why I say bring several GTR's to the 24 hours of Nurburgring and see what happens. That is a start. All this will do is supply more fodder for arguments. It takes time to prove a car.
#1883
11-21-2008, 02:11 PM
I read this in e90post Steve and i actually posted it recently in this thread, can't wait to see the outcome. How about some prediction guys. I'm guessing 7:30 for the GT2 and 7:45 for the GTR.
#1884
11-21-2008, 02:17 PM
#1885
11-21-2008, 02:20 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense to purchase both off the showroom floor w/o prior notice to the dealer? Then do a reasonable break in period (if really needed) and then go at it?
Last edited by USCCayman; 11-21-2008 at 02:31 PM.
#1886
11-21-2008, 02:29 PM
GT-R = 7:47.1
GT2 = 7:45.6
Remember GT2 has MSPC tires stock--- but AWD is handy in the damp....
Last edited by chrisn; 11-21-2008 at 02:44 PM.
#1887
11-21-2008, 02:37 PM
Results are up:
http://magazines.drivers-republic.co...c/thetruth030/
Spoiler: Not exactly the 20 second delta that Porsche reported
http://magazines.drivers-republic.co...c/thetruth030/
Spoiler: Not exactly the 20 second delta that Porsche reported
Last edited by chrisn; 11-21-2008 at 03:13 PM.
#1888
11-21-2008, 02:46 PM
if they ran the cars in the wet roads as show in the pic then I predict that the GTR will beat the GT2 by a wide margin. In those conditions the GT2 has no chance. Based on that I'll guess a 7:49 for the GTR and a 7:55 for the GT2.
if totally dry, I am going to say, 7:32 for the GT2 and 7:44 for the GTR.
of course, both cars should have been run on the same tires on dry ground to compare vehicles and not tires
if totally dry, I am going to say, 7:32 for the GT2 and 7:44 for the GTR.
of course, both cars should have been run on the same tires on dry ground to compare vehicles and not tires
#1889
11-21-2008, 03:25 PM
#1890
11-21-2008, 03:29 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Interesting.
While I dont think Chris had the best opportunity to set times like we see from the manufacturers, he has to be commended for driving them both in those conditions. To be honest after looking at the first few pages, and him driving on wet track I thought the GT-R might win.
But:
It didnt, in fact it got beat by 7 seconds. and despite the wet weather, we have another pro driver in the 7:50's with the R35. This is VERY similar to the R32 debacle. Aichtner, Horst, Harris. ALL OF WHICH SAID THEY DIDNT THINK 7:29 WAS IN THE REALM OF POSSIBLE!!!!!!! Obviously the GT-R is a high 7:40's car with these guys, the better tires, and dry tracks. I think with the test driver, the GT-R is at best mid-low 7:40.
Now, where I see the problem is:
I think the GT-R's bulk and weight do help it to handle bumps,curbs etc better sometimes, and thus get better apex speeds than lighter cars sometimes.
My issue though has always been with the GT-R running too much hp at the ring.
Look at the last page of the track data. The GT2 absolutely rapes the GT-R from the last corner prior to straight(galgenkopf), all the way down the straight. In fact it exits galgenkopf faster, and is going 11 mph faster by the first overpass that I've been complaining about. Not to mention the GT-R only reaches a peak speed of 168 mph where as we can clearly see on Nissan's video the GT-R going right along with the ZR-1 which gets to 179 mph, so 10-12 mph faster than this GT-R on that back straight.
Headwind my behind, the ZR-1 still almost matched the GT2 with whatever headwind it had, so it wasnt all that bad.
- Nissan had more power in that GT-R than any stock one that has been sold to any customer. This is just more confirmation for me and anyone else who hasnt got on blinders.
- The car that ran 7:38 ran the back straight just as fast as the 7:29 car. So it was modded too.
So we have two same day same track ring tests. Porsche 2 Nissan 0
While I dont think Chris had the best opportunity to set times like we see from the manufacturers, he has to be commended for driving them both in those conditions. To be honest after looking at the first few pages, and him driving on wet track I thought the GT-R might win.
But:
It didnt, in fact it got beat by 7 seconds. and despite the wet weather, we have another pro driver in the 7:50's with the R35. This is VERY similar to the R32 debacle. Aichtner, Horst, Harris. ALL OF WHICH SAID THEY DIDNT THINK 7:29 WAS IN THE REALM OF POSSIBLE!!!!!!! Obviously the GT-R is a high 7:40's car with these guys, the better tires, and dry tracks. I think with the test driver, the GT-R is at best mid-low 7:40.
Now, where I see the problem is:
I think the GT-R's bulk and weight do help it to handle bumps,curbs etc better sometimes, and thus get better apex speeds than lighter cars sometimes.
My issue though has always been with the GT-R running too much hp at the ring.
Look at the last page of the track data. The GT2 absolutely rapes the GT-R from the last corner prior to straight(galgenkopf), all the way down the straight. In fact it exits galgenkopf faster, and is going 11 mph faster by the first overpass that I've been complaining about. Not to mention the GT-R only reaches a peak speed of 168 mph where as we can clearly see on Nissan's video the GT-R going right along with the ZR-1 which gets to 179 mph, so 10-12 mph faster than this GT-R on that back straight.
Headwind my behind, the ZR-1 still almost matched the GT2 with whatever headwind it had, so it wasnt all that bad.
- Nissan had more power in that GT-R than any stock one that has been sold to any customer. This is just more confirmation for me and anyone else who hasnt got on blinders.
- The car that ran 7:38 ran the back straight just as fast as the 7:29 car. So it was modded too.
So we have two same day same track ring tests. Porsche 2 Nissan 0
Last edited by heavychevy; 11-21-2008 at 03:31 PM.