Originally Posted by Vladcanada

Now i never been on the track and that is just my assumptions.
I just think too many people are skipping the engineering part of this car, Balance, down force,drag,smart awd,gearbox ETC. Couldn't it all add up in times?

Originally Posted by E55AMG

I gotta admit - work's been kind of slow and my Mets choked again, but I have been thoroughly entertained by this thread.

Have we determined yet that there has been an OFFICIAL statement from Porsche, or was it just one guy speaking to a reporter?

Took a look at the n'ring link and it is quite shocking to see some of the cars that the GTR beat - Pagani, K'segg, F430 Scud, CGT. I don't care if the GTR beat their times while going backwards, on flat tires - I think I'll take one of the other cars

Originally Posted by jaeS4

In this article, you'll see that the GTR was able to virtually match the 997tt's and Z06's 1/4 mile performance. I believe the GTR did under 12 second at 120mph almost the same as the 997tt, but the Z06 was the fastest and quickest. The first time Car and Driver tested the GTR did similar numbers but with slightly higher top end at 124mph. The second test when they compared it with the M3 and 997tt was alot slower. But they did admit that when they tested the GTR for the third time, they where able to duplicate the same numbers from the first test. I'm not saying this is any proof whatsoever, i'm just posting more data from independent testers that have tested the GTR and 997TT.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6591
Nissan GTR:
Points: 386.6
Lap Times: 1:56.9

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6592
Z06 Corvette:
Points: 384.2
Lap Times: 2:02.2

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6593
911 Turbo:
Points: 380.7
Lap Times: 2:02.1

Originally Posted by Sakred

I am copying a post by an NAGTROC memeber (HeavyNissan) because i think it fits very well into this argument.


HMM

-Top Gear has the GT-R on their track beating the Turbo and GT3

oh but top gear is only entertainment and the turbo's run was in very wet conditions

-5th Gear has the GT-R beating the Turbo with B Senna driving

oh but it's still just a show

-R&T has the GT-R beating the Turbo at Buttonwillow

oh but they had steve millen who was paid off

-C&D has the GT-R beating the Turbo at Reno

oh but C&D is worthless anyway these are from american magazines who know nothing other than drag racing

-Autocar has the GT-R beating the GT3

oh they're from europe and not that big anyway

-Evo has the GT-R beating the GT3; with a speed limited customer car

oh theyre no longer the standard

-SPORTAUTO GOT PORSCHE'S TIME WITHOUT EVEN GOING ALL OUT, JUST GETTING A FEEL FOR THINGS...

Let Porsche keep talking. Nothing wrong with giving them a little rope...





Hammad

Originally Posted by Sakred

You cant argue Mag times with HevyChevy. he has a list of excuses all documented in my previous post. Im just saving you time buddy

Hammad

Originally Posted by heavychevy

Yet you keep trying. Why are you quoting yourself?? Because no one payed you any attention the first time???


What is your excuse for the TT thrashing the GT-R in their most recent head to head test????




It's pretty funny how the Fanboys arent secure enough in their convictions so they have to go everywhere and defend their car (or the one they wish they had). It's the same thing everywhere, enthusiasts of many marks are scratching their heads, on many a forum, and there is a fanboy or 10 in there defending it passionately.

Originally Posted by Vladcanada

I think even tho it is questionable you are just narrow minded person and dont want to think outside the box. Read my previous post.

Originally Posted by Vladcanada

Also it has been stated in many reviews that GTR can take turns faster and easier then other cars? Because of awd and the down force, where for example tt would slow down or lift... so there is your second or so. And nuderburg ring is so long that with all the advantages I believe it could shave some time off.

Now i never been on the track and that is just my assumptions.
I just think too many people are skipping the engineering part of this car, Balance, down force,drag,smart awd,gearbox ETC. Couldn't it all add up in times?

Originally Posted by heavychevy

BWHAHAHAAH You shouldnt have asked me to go back and read your other posts because I just did.

What the hell is nuderburg????????




HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA


HAAHAAAHAHAH


AHAHAH
















BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Originally Posted by heavychevy

Vlad I'm sorry bro but you arent helping, you said you've never been to the track, but you keep hemorrhaging at the mouth with track terms you know nothing about.

"Uh, but what about downforce, um the GT-R is more stable, it's got developed on the ring and wheels are rounder therefore they could not have cheated if there is no document to prove it"



I'm not bothering bro, you are obviously a fanboy, which is why you usually do the one post and leave deal. But this time when your dream car is caught out you stick around to defend it. You've been called on it so there is no need to keep going.

I'm not going to turn this into a personal deal though. When you go and study something on tracking and can provide a decent rebuttal then come back but for now it's not worth our time, you cant change how I feel and you cant provide a decent piece of information that's not from someone elses mouth or keyboard or magazine. Just give it up already.

I'm posting where I should, a Porsche board, because I OWN a Porsche. If I dont like the GT-R I'm free to do so right here. If you dont like it go back and join the fanboy club at NAGTROC or something. You really dont do much for the impression of the fanboys knowledge pool. Arguing over what you admittedly know NOTHIING about.

Originally Posted by chrisn

This fanboy has been on a flight for 18 hours, but now am online.

I tried to scan the recent posts, but didn't see any reply to the core Nissan lying issue.

HC or others: Do you think Nissan lied about the 7:38 lap that they print in their owners manual?

No one seems to have taken up my offer to do another test. Have to be a lot of stock TTs on Norcal on the board.

I'll be at Thunderhill again on 10/10 if anyone is game.

We'll have to figure out the methodology in order to take out the driver as a factor--- obviously skill matters more than car.

I'm not particularly hung up about the precise 'Ring times (I have never driven the ring and prob never will. If I do, I'll prob turn a 10:00), but I find it implausible that Nissan would willfully defraud potential buyers with a blatantly false claim, and that the grand conspiracy would extend to dozens of other independent organizations ---- and even to me. I didn't even know I was part of the conspiracy.

Originally Posted by heavychevy

We've gotten into this before and I'd like not to again, but you arent going to jump in here and tell people to stop voicing their opinions and expect to be taken seriously.

ROFL @ you quoting a comment directed at another member discussing a logical fallacy as start point of your rebuttal to me. Sorry it wasn't a pro-HC comment, it technically wasn't a negative comment towards you either. I was calling out people who have nothing to say back to you other than call you names, and making fun of them for it.
It was simply my take on what Cannga said. And if anything it was a quip about words, having little to do with the debate about the cars. It didn't take anything away from you, yet your panties are all bunched up because I wasn't praising your plethora of book knowledge and lack of any tact. So please, do come at me with how I wronged you so badly with my comment...


If you werent complaining about the "GT-R beats etc.", "I drove a GT-R" threads then frankly you are the one who can butt out.
These guys have been putting up with fanboy takeover for months now, and with some contradictory evidence on the plate, it's there right, ON A PORSCHE FORUM. There is plenty of grounds for suspsicion, and you brief description of validity has no relevance to the arguement.

I wasn't aware that these grown men needed your defense against "all the bad little fanbois!!!" Are you serious? Are you their mother? I don't think a single guy on here is insecure about his or her car, but excuse me, I didn't know your life's purpose was to perpetuate this debate that clearly has sides that wont budge.
I simply asked that people take this with a grain of salt considering where the info is from...like you would if Nissan did something similar.
I don't know what I was thinking.


There is plenty of grounds for suspsicion, and you brief description of validity has no relevance to the arguement.

If anything, I have agreed with lots of points you brought up on why there is to be suspicion, even quoting you in my posts. I appreciate your perspective even if I didn't agree at first. I hardly see you do that for anyone else. All I was saying in my post was that it really doesn't matter and we should enjoy both cars, but you're so wrapped up in your own drama you can't shut up for 2 seconds and agree with that.
What, you think Porsche will give you a reach around for converting some GTR fanboys into TT lovers? I appreciate your passion and your real world intelligence, but you unravel into delusion and grandeur far too much for me to respect you as a decent person. God knows I know a lot of smart car guys, but none of them come close to your level of pomp. Subtly nor tact are apparently words in your vocab.

That being said, my argument no validity why? Because you think it doesn't? My points are relatively neutral. I'm claiming most every test has found the cars pretty even and we should let this bickering go as it's really a driver's race.
But apparently you have a guy from Porsche standing behind you injecting dopamine into your spinal cord every few seconds you think the GTR is worse than the TT. That's about the only logical reason I can see a grown man spending a majority of his day on a forum arguing with people who have no real argument.


#1 Top gear "HAD" only tested cars available in the European market, the testing of the GT-R was an exception to their rule.

Ok, good, I see.

#2 They flew the car directy from where? You guessed it Japan. And combined with almost every test saying the car understeers, dont mind me if I'm not convinced when the stig throws it into the carousel and it doesnt push a lick.

Perhaps the Stig is a better driver than most? One who did many many laps with the GTR to figure out how to drive it?
So your evidence that a car was tweaked, was that a phenomenal driver drove it properly? Yes, that seals the deal. No room for leeway in interpretation on that grounds.
And I'm not sure what video you were watching, but on the first corner, he understeers a bit especially at the end of it. At the hammerhead, he understeers going into the first apex and then flicks it out at the end and gets a nice 4 wheels drift...no kidding it didn't plow. Must have been all suspension and not driver. I forgot that a driver cannot induce understeer or oversteer based on how he drives...what am I thinking? Perhaps your logic is because you can't, he cant?

And wait, just to clarify, you have driven one of these right? That's how you know they understeer so much? Or wait, now you're referencing the mag tests and their claims of understeer, but not when they claim the GTR is superior. That's a clever use of references, nice and splotchy, just when it works in your favor...
Unlike you, I've been in one tracking and driven it. I didn't feel all that much understeer...must have been that clever computer taking grip to the front wheels. But why tell you, you probably already know right or did the mags not confirm when you needed them to?


So at this point you have a couple of choices, because neither have you, nor can you change the opinions of the people posting in this thread, nor their ability to voice them. You can chill out and post some useful counterpoints or we can go back to the old days of arguing. But you arent going to come in here with that rampage nonsense and expect it to carry any weight.

My rampage is directed at stopping yours and everyone elses, not changing anyones opinion. I thought an elementary reading ability would have given you insight into that from my post.
I witnessed first hand how normal people act towards the GTR, hell actually Porsche guys. They were very civil and discussion was fun and lighthearted. They were all scrambling to get a chance in the GTR to see what it was about and complimenting it after every run.
You on the other hand ***** and moan continuously about the car as if it came to your house and shot your dog. Or wait, you do it for all the other defenseless owners, awwwww....
You whine when GTR fanboys create GTR topics in the 997 forum, but when you post it...it's ok?? Another clever use of logic...it's been spotless so far after all.
Also note, I didn't even really mention you in my post, rather just told everyone to stop yelling at each other about something so irrelevant and using internet anonymity as a platform for being a hardass.
But again, you take it personally, because it's all about you. See GRANDEUR.

This is a thread commenting on a statement given by Porsche, with commentary and supporting views from PORSCHE enthusiasts, which is what this board was created for. If you cant accept a little bias, as you will see anywhere, then leave. And take yours with you since you still only see from one side of the point of view. It's best for you to remember where you are before trying to buck the system.

No way, really? I had no idea about the Porsche forum, thanks for clearing it up. I could give a crap about bias, I'm not petty. But don't ***** about it when it's not on the side you agree with and then praise it when it is on yours. Have some consistency.
I cleverly haven't taken a side anymore, because I enjoy both cars and whereas before I thought the GTR wash making a wash of the TT. I think now after more knowledge and first hand experience it's about the driver not the machine.

I couldn't give a crap less which one is faster by a couple seconds around the ring or what not, driver error will more than compensate. I respect the GTR for being fast and "cheap" and I respect the TT for being the benchmark people shoot for. But you take the argument to a ridiculous level. I'm all for debate, and frankly probably will with many people, but Jesus, for everyone's sake take a look at how you approach everyone. Ignore the fanboys...Vladcanada obviously makes a terrible argument as does the other guy quoting mags and nothing else...let it go.

It's impossible to have a legit conversation with you when no matter what anyone says, it's wrong or faulty, but you can hardly look at your own fallacies.