997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#2146
12-06-2008, 02:05 PM
To be fair...
... much like the Veyron it is sinfully homely (the Bugatti of course looks like it is sucking on a lemon).
But it is a totally impressive car. With or without mods, with or without doctoring Ring numbers, with or without allegations of premature breakdowns.
Not sure why so many on this thread are having a problem with it. Hats off to these folks for building a remarkable machine. It will no doubt push all performance car makers to rethink their price/performance assumptions - and everything else that goes with it.
As a dedicated Porsche owner, I think it's great news.
Oh, and did I mention that it's really unattractive? Unless the look of a Japanese Camaro thrills ya'. (sorry, just can't resist)
[quote=Galactus;2162906]
So Evo has been giving out Car of the Year awards to Porsche's, but the GT-R beats the baddest Porsche on sale for their Car of the Year crown. Pretty impressive. But again this is still just a magazine award, like the Automobile and Motor Trend Car of the Year trophies the GT-R has now collected. But Evo is a damn good magazine, and the level of competition was pretty spectacular for this test: Gallardo LP-560, Porsche GT2, Aston Martin V8 Vantage, and Alfa Romeo 8C
Another GT-R owner has gone 10.8@128mph+ using the fragile tranny and LC...
Wow that tranny sure is a pile of crap. The haters have been saying it is only rated to 550 pound feet of torque and will explode if you exceed that number. That GT-R is making 600 pound feet to the wheels, using the LC on a sticky drag strip. Perhaps if you do 50 launches on it within the first 3 weeks of ownership, before anything is even broken in, you will blow it up? Running 600 pound feet and 600+ horsepower at a drag strip while using LC would surely blow it up if there is a design flaw with the gearbox. I am sure the clutches in that gearbox are not enjoying the additional 120+ horsepower and 170 pound feet of torque, but so far so good. I guess when these cars are running as fast as a Veyron with under $8000 worth of mods next year people on this board may give the car some respect.....NOT!
Fastest production car ever!:
$1.5M Bugatti Veyron
(Road and track)
0-60mph 2.6
0-100mph 5.5
10.2@142.9mph 1/4 mile
$75,000 GT-R ($8K+ modified)
0-60mph 2.39
0-100mph 6.2
10.8@129mph 1/4 mile
This car really is as Autocar's Chris Harris says, a Baby Veyron.
So the GT-R's are already running 10.8 1/4's with 129-133mph traps with the stock exhaust still in place. If these tranny's are not made of glass, then this car will be running 9 second passes next year with some of the turbo kits in development. But then again it is still an ugly Nissan POS right everyone?
But it is a totally impressive car. With or without mods, with or without doctoring Ring numbers, with or without allegations of premature breakdowns.
Not sure why so many on this thread are having a problem with it. Hats off to these folks for building a remarkable machine. It will no doubt push all performance car makers to rethink their price/performance assumptions - and everything else that goes with it.
As a dedicated Porsche owner, I think it's great news.
Oh, and did I mention that it's really unattractive? Unless the look of a Japanese Camaro thrills ya'. (sorry, just can't resist)
[quote=Galactus;2162906]
So Evo has been giving out Car of the Year awards to Porsche's, but the GT-R beats the baddest Porsche on sale for their Car of the Year crown. Pretty impressive. But again this is still just a magazine award, like the Automobile and Motor Trend Car of the Year trophies the GT-R has now collected. But Evo is a damn good magazine, and the level of competition was pretty spectacular for this test: Gallardo LP-560, Porsche GT2, Aston Martin V8 Vantage, and Alfa Romeo 8C
Another GT-R owner has gone 10.8@128mph+ using the fragile tranny and LC...
Wow that tranny sure is a pile of crap. The haters have been saying it is only rated to 550 pound feet of torque and will explode if you exceed that number. That GT-R is making 600 pound feet to the wheels, using the LC on a sticky drag strip. Perhaps if you do 50 launches on it within the first 3 weeks of ownership, before anything is even broken in, you will blow it up? Running 600 pound feet and 600+ horsepower at a drag strip while using LC would surely blow it up if there is a design flaw with the gearbox. I am sure the clutches in that gearbox are not enjoying the additional 120+ horsepower and 170 pound feet of torque, but so far so good. I guess when these cars are running as fast as a Veyron with under $8000 worth of mods next year people on this board may give the car some respect.....NOT! Fastest production car ever!:
$1.5M Bugatti Veyron
(Road and track)
0-60mph 2.6
0-100mph 5.5
10.2@142.9mph 1/4 mile
$75,000 GT-R ($8K+ modified)
0-60mph 2.39
0-100mph 6.2
10.8@129mph 1/4 mile
This car really is as Autocar's Chris Harris says, a Baby Veyron.
So the GT-R's are already running 10.8 1/4's with 129-133mph traps with the stock exhaust still in place. If these tranny's are not made of glass, then this car will be running 9 second passes next year with some of the turbo kits in development. But then again it is still an ugly Nissan POS right everyone?
#2147
12-06-2008, 04:05 PM
[QUOTE=heavychevy;2162931]
I would appreciate it if you get your facts straight before you start talking about someone else's car. I say this because you're talking about MY GT-R.
The car is running the stock turbos. It's also running a straight midpipe and titanium catback exhaust. ECU tuned to up stock boost. Upgraded air intake (from panel filters to cones.)
As far as my "motto" that you mention, I merely stated that because I'm not afraid if the tranny does in fact break. We must push the car to its limits in order to discover what its capable of.
And I did not only run once with launch control. I have about *100* launches on the car and many with the higher HP. I launched it twice at the strip last night -- mis-shifting (hit rev limiter) in both runs. We're heading back to the track tomorrow to improve on things.
So again, if you're going to talk smack about someone's car, please get your facts straight. Because your implications are that the car owner is a LIAR by the way you made your statement.
Thank you.
The car is running the stock turbos. It's also running a straight midpipe and titanium catback exhaust. ECU tuned to up stock boost. Upgraded air intake (from panel filters to cones.)
As far as my "motto" that you mention, I merely stated that because I'm not afraid if the tranny does in fact break. We must push the car to its limits in order to discover what its capable of.
And I did not only run once with launch control. I have about *100* launches on the car and many with the higher HP. I launched it twice at the strip last night -- mis-shifting (hit rev limiter) in both runs. We're heading back to the track tomorrow to improve on things.
So again, if you're going to talk smack about someone's car, please get your facts straight. Because your implications are that the car owner is a LIAR by the way you made your statement.
Thank you.
Last edited by JohnTurbo; 12-06-2008 at 04:08 PM.
#2149
12-06-2008, 04:34 PM
how do you miss a shift on a basically auto tranny. Also what are the mystery turbos in the GTR? What kind of Turbos can make a 4000lb car go 10.8 in the 1/4 and still have no lag? I know variable geometry is patented for use with porsche so if Nissan is using it, hmmm, might be some problem there. I large garret will definitely not give the low end response these cars have.
Where is the info on this car? I'd like to see the write up on it, would be very interesting.
Where is the info on this car? I'd like to see the write up on it, would be very interesting.
#2150
12-06-2008, 04:41 PM
how do you miss a shift on a basically auto tranny. Also what are the mystery turbos in the GTR? What kind of Turbos can make a 4000lb car go 10.8 in the 1/4 and still have no lag? I know variable geometry is patented for use with porsche so if Nissan is using it, hmmm, might be some problem there. I large garret will definitely not give the low end response these cars have.
Where is the info on this car? I'd like to see the write up on it, would be very interesting.
Where is the info on this car? I'd like to see the write up on it, would be very interesting.
Here's more details of the car and that 10.8 run:
http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=26937
#2152
12-06-2008, 05:18 PM
Thanks for posting up John! Yes sometimes the "facts" get in the way on this forum as some of the guys have a passionate dislike of the GT-R. Why? Who knows? So again the facts are stock turbos, cat back exhaust (my mistake), Cobb Ecu, Meth Kit, Boost controller, air filters and the HKS 570 kit. So around $10,000 worth of mods I presume John? That gets the GT-R to go:
0-60mph in 2.35-2.39 seconds:
This is a very accurate calculator:
http://www.wallaceracing.com/0-60_equation.php
Plug in the GT-R's times and speeds:
7.216@ 105mph = 2.35
7.012@ 102mph = 2.39
Impressive performance and it sounds like there is plenty more left in the car with some fine tuning. Perhaps a 10.5 or so? Nice to hear that you have done over 100 launches on this car already without any issues. Good to have some actual facts, from actual owners, instead of biased hearsay and innuendo.
0-60mph in 2.35-2.39 seconds:
This is a very accurate calculator:
http://www.wallaceracing.com/0-60_equation.php
Plug in the GT-R's times and speeds:
7.216@ 105mph = 2.35
7.012@ 102mph = 2.39
Impressive performance and it sounds like there is plenty more left in the car with some fine tuning. Perhaps a 10.5 or so? Nice to hear that you have done over 100 launches on this car already without any issues. Good to have some actual facts, from actual owners, instead of biased hearsay and innuendo.
And, YES, plenty more left in the car. Heading back to the track tomorrow and I'd be shocked if we didn't get below 10.8.
#2153
12-06-2008, 06:34 PM
This thread has gotten really off topic. We are talking about sports cars and the Nurburgring. As HC has said before, it doesn't take much to make a car go fast in the quarter. Aren't their 9-second Civics? With the exception of Mr. Suzuki, no one else has been able to get the stock GTR under 7:50. That is the topic.
#2154
12-06-2008, 08:42 PM
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#2155
12-06-2008, 08:57 PM
Good to see the actual owner on board. Welcome! Congrats on pushing the limits of the car in a relatively short amount of time! It is insane that you have over 100 launches on the car, even when modified. What can you attest the tranny failures to then?
Congrats on pushing the limits of the car in a relatively short amount of time! It is insane that you have over 100 launches on the car, even when modified. What can you attest the tranny failures to then?
#2156
12-06-2008, 10:17 PM
I think (as well as several others) that the tranny failures are due to launching the car many times in a short amount of time. Trans fluid gets too hot to protect the gears. From all the feedback we've heard about the few that have broken, they all had that in common - launch after launch in a short amount of time. One car had like 17 in a row or something.
I launch the car a lot but I wait at least 15-20 minutes (or more) between launches. So far so good.
#2157
12-06-2008, 10:25 PM
[quote=JohnTurbo;2163089]
I would appreciate it if you get your facts straight before you start talking about someone else's car. I say this because you're talking about MY GT-R.
The car is running the stock turbos. It's also running a straight midpipe and titanium catback exhaust. ECU tuned to up stock boost. Upgraded air intake (from panel filters to cones.)
As far as my "motto" that you mention, I merely stated that because I'm not afraid if the tranny does in fact break. We must push the car to its limits in order to discover what its capable of.
And I did not only run once with launch control. I have about *100* launches on the car and many with the higher HP. I launched it twice at the strip last night -- mis-shifting (hit rev limiter) in both runs. We're heading back to the track tomorrow to improve on things.
So again, if you're going to talk smack about someone's car, please get your facts straight. Because your implications are that the car owner is a LIAR by the way you made your statement.
Thank you.
HC - pwned!!
I would appreciate it if you get your facts straight before you start talking about someone else's car. I say this because you're talking about MY GT-R.
The car is running the stock turbos. It's also running a straight midpipe and titanium catback exhaust. ECU tuned to up stock boost. Upgraded air intake (from panel filters to cones.)
As far as my "motto" that you mention, I merely stated that because I'm not afraid if the tranny does in fact break. We must push the car to its limits in order to discover what its capable of.
And I did not only run once with launch control. I have about *100* launches on the car and many with the higher HP. I launched it twice at the strip last night -- mis-shifting (hit rev limiter) in both runs. We're heading back to the track tomorrow to improve on things.
So again, if you're going to talk smack about someone's car, please get your facts straight. Because your implications are that the car owner is a LIAR by the way you made your statement.
Thank you.
#2158
12-07-2008, 05:01 AM
The same has been proven in endless magazine tests on endless circuits, and also by first-hand feedback from people who have had the opportunity to drive both.
The only independent comparison which has been carried out at the 'Ring saw a stock, unprepared GT-R on the less effective OEM tyre choice get within a few seconds of the GT2 press car on MPSCs - massively narrowing the claimed gap in times. Manufacturers (all of them) test day-after-day, for months to get their times and five or six seconds there is an irrelevance in terms of repeatability.
I suppose all those passing judgment are experts at the 'Ring too ...
#2159
12-07-2008, 05:26 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 If you had driven both GT-R and 997 Turbo (and it seems there are only a handful of people here who have - make of that what you will), you would see that it would take a very committed driver to get near a GT-R's lap time in a standard 997 Turbo.
The same has been proven in endless magazine tests on endless circuits, and also by first-hand feedback from people who have had the opportunity to drive both.
The only independent comparison which has been carried out at the 'Ring saw a stock, unprepared GT-R on the less effective OEM tyre choice get within a few seconds of the GT2 press car on MPSCs - massively narrowing the claimed gap in times. Manufacturers (all of them) test day-after-day, for months to get their times and five or six seconds there is an irrelevance in terms of repeatability.
I suppose all those passing judgment are experts at the 'Ring too ...
The same has been proven in endless magazine tests on endless circuits, and also by first-hand feedback from people who have had the opportunity to drive both.
The only independent comparison which has been carried out at the 'Ring saw a stock, unprepared GT-R on the less effective OEM tyre choice get within a few seconds of the GT2 press car on MPSCs - massively narrowing the claimed gap in times. Manufacturers (all of them) test day-after-day, for months to get their times and five or six seconds there is an irrelevance in terms of repeatability.
I suppose all those passing judgment are experts at the 'Ring too ...
No, what we saw was the GT-R on the better of the tires for the conditions. The Bridgestones are better in the wet sections than both the MPSC and the Dunlops. On top of that being AWD in the wet narrowed the gap because Chris was short shifting. So that gap, had it been dry would have been much bigger.
And 7 seconds isnt a few, considering it could have easily been ten or more were Chris more confortable pushing 530 hp with rwd on R compounds in wet conditions.
So let's not even try to act like that was both cars being pushed to the same level, the driver even admitted he pushed one (GT-R) harder than the other (GT2) and still beat it by 7 seconds.
You forget that Porsche tested it's car on the better of its tires when they did the GT-R test. None of the mag tests with the TT have been with the MPSC on the TT.
Not to mention the bridgestones are stickier than the PS2's. And considering the Dunlops are 3 seconds faster on even short tracks, the dunlops arent far from R-comps because PS2's are within three seconds of factory spec MPSC easily.
Get your facts straight.
#2160
12-07-2008, 05:26 AM
Thanks! BTW, I love Porsches -- have had several.
I think (as well as several others) that the tranny failures are due to launching the car many times in a short amount of time. Trans fluid gets too hot to protect the gears. From all the feedback we've heard about the few that have broken, they all had that in common - launch after launch in a short amount of time. One car had like 17 in a row or something.
I launch the car a lot but I wait at least 15-20 minutes (or more) between launches. So far so good.
I think (as well as several others) that the tranny failures are due to launching the car many times in a short amount of time. Trans fluid gets too hot to protect the gears. From all the feedback we've heard about the few that have broken, they all had that in common - launch after launch in a short amount of time. One car had like 17 in a row or something.
I launch the car a lot but I wait at least 15-20 minutes (or more) between launches. So far so good.
Welcome to 6speed. Great work on your part getting the power and times you have gotten. I think you will find despite the long thread here most folks are just butting heads for fun and we're really all speed freaks one in the same. While I don't like the GTR as far as aesthetics, weight, and gizmos, it is quite an impressive accomplishment - I think most folks here recognize that. I really hope that Nissan will stop jerking the community around as far as the warranty issue/LC/durability issues - no one should feel like they are getting thrown under the bus with their new car.