997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#241
10-04-2008, 10:53 AM
>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../FREE/71017001
But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58. So he suggested the GT-R’s strong suit was that it offered “the best cost per lap time."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Best cost per lap time." Priceless, just priceless. Once again, GT-R owners: good car, but too heavy because built to be cheap, and ridiculous warranty term, because, yes, built to be cheap. "Cheap" is this car's mantra; its own chief engineer said it.
Kidding aside. This is where I think Nissan has gone wrong: Instead of claiming 7:44, they got greedy (greed = stupidity) and went for that shameful 7:29 mark.
Even that *other* lie, that 7:38, might have been ok to cheat with. One could always claim driver/weather/car variations.
7:29 is so outrageous that even the least intelligent and least reasonable sports car fans know it's a cheat. It's an easy proof and Porsche is going after this mark because they know: you only have to prove someone's dishonesty ONCE.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../FREE/71017001
But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58. So he suggested the GT-R’s strong suit was that it offered “the best cost per lap time."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"Best cost per lap time." Priceless, just priceless. Once again, GT-R owners: good car, but too heavy because built to be cheap, and ridiculous warranty term, because, yes, built to be cheap. "Cheap" is this car's mantra; its own chief engineer said it.
Kidding aside. This is where I think Nissan has gone wrong: Instead of claiming 7:44, they got greedy (greed = stupidity) and went for that shameful 7:29 mark.
Even that *other* lie, that 7:38, might have been ok to cheat with. One could always claim driver/weather/car variations.
7:29 is so outrageous that even the least intelligent and least reasonable sports car fans know it's a cheat. It's an easy proof and Porsche is going after this mark because they know: you only have to prove someone's dishonesty ONCE.
Even if it was tweaked to 550 hp i wanna see porsche do the same.
#243
10-04-2008, 11:28 AM
well there's way more articles about how spectacular this car is, and that proves somthing.
#244
10-04-2008, 11:32 AM
Come on guys put a stop to this already! We are all grown ups here. Lets give credit to Nissan for building a 'poor man's supercar' and give Porsche credit for buying a GTR to develop and superior 998 TT for us in the future.
#245
10-04-2008, 01:55 PM
#246
10-04-2008, 01:56 PM
#248
10-04-2008, 02:25 PM
Anyway this is my last post. Im not a fanboi. I love both cars equally, and my point is that, GTR was made for turns, it was designed from ground up,lots of innovative technology in it, and it had 1000 laps around the ring, its great car, i dont know why "SOME narrow minded" PORSHA fanbois cannot accept it or understand.
I'll keep reading this untill it dies lol
Last edited by Vladcanada; 10-04-2008 at 02:54 PM.
#249
10-04-2008, 03:06 PM
#251
10-04-2008, 04:45 PM
I'll say that I believe the GTR is fast as hell. In good tune I fully believe it to be faster on most tracks than a stock 997 TT, and obviously easier to drive to boot.
I will say, however, that I still don't believe the ring time was a stock car. To counter that stock 11.5 at 121.7 time you also have 12.0 at 115 for the slower GTRs, so there is quite a "stock" spread. Even if they took that fastest tested one to the ring, there is video proof of the GTR out accelerating the 600 hp dodge viper ACR down the straight, which is a ~11.2 at 129+ car. There is no good explanation for the extra 7+ mph the GTR found other than significantly more than stock hp. Thus I believe the tested GTR was significantly quicker than customer cars.
That said, it's going to be significantly slower than most of the tuner versions out there, so it's still a damn quick car.
We'll know shortly- every magazine that can is bringing a GTR to the ring as we speak. I predict that none will duplicate the GTR's time with a stock car. Consider how bad that PR would be for Porsche- they claim Nissan is full of it, are proved wrong, and nissan gets 10x the publicity... The fact is they are damn sure that was a modded car- they have the same video evidence we all do, and it is possible to tell...
This is a good unbiased article on the subject:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/
-Pete
Last edited by petevb; 10-04-2008 at 04:57 PM.
#252
10-04-2008, 04:53 PM
When Lexus came out with their LS400 years ago, Mercedes tried to ignore until it was obvious that Lexus was taking a good chunk of their market share (I believe that Lexus now has a larger share of the luxury US car market than Mercedes). Soon, you heard rumors of Mercedes buying Lexus cars to strip them and find out what Lexus was doing.
Nissan has done a great job with the GT-R. I see a similarity here. It seems that Porsche has bought a few GT-Rs and are now putting them through the paces. I am sure they will be taking them apart and finding out more about the car.
Whether P is right or wrong about the ring numbers is immaterial at this point. The GT-R has changed the perception enough that sooner rather than later Porsche will have to get on the ball. The introduction of the PDK in regular P-cars may be an example (Porsche says that they developed the technology 20 or so years ago and somehow are now making it available to the rest of us. Coincidence? Who knows!).
In the end, I expect that Porsche car fans will benefit. Mercedes started building better cars to meet Lexus' challenge. I expect that Porsche will do the same as well.
Nissan has done a great job with the GT-R. I see a similarity here. It seems that Porsche has bought a few GT-Rs and are now putting them through the paces. I am sure they will be taking them apart and finding out more about the car.
Whether P is right or wrong about the ring numbers is immaterial at this point. The GT-R has changed the perception enough that sooner rather than later Porsche will have to get on the ball. The introduction of the PDK in regular P-cars may be an example (Porsche says that they developed the technology 20 or so years ago and somehow are now making it available to the rest of us. Coincidence? Who knows!).
In the end, I expect that Porsche car fans will benefit. Mercedes started building better cars to meet Lexus' challenge. I expect that Porsche will do the same as well.
#253
10-04-2008, 05:03 PM
I agree with the similarity, with one exception: Lexus did not shamelessly publicize false data to advertise their cars.
When Lexus came out with their LS400 years ago, Mercedes tried to ignore until it was obvious that Lexus was taking a good chunk of their market share (I believe that Lexus now has a larger share of the luxury US car market than Mercedes). Soon, you heard rumors of Mercedes buying Lexus cars to strip them and find out what Lexus was doing.
Nissan has done a great job with the GT-R. I see a similarity here. It seems that Porsche has bought a few GT-Rs and are now putting them through the paces. I am sure they will be taking them apart and finding out more about the car.
Whether P is right or wrong about the ring numbers is immaterial at this point. The GT-R has changed the perception enough that sooner rather than later Porsche will have to get on the ball. The introduction of the PDK in regular P-cars may be an example (Porsche says that they developed the technology 20 or so years ago and somehow are now making it available to the rest of us. Coincidence? Who knows!).
In the end, I expect that Porsche car fans will benefit. Mercedes started building better cars to meet Lexus' challenge. I expect that Porsche will do the same as well.
Nissan has done a great job with the GT-R. I see a similarity here. It seems that Porsche has bought a few GT-Rs and are now putting them through the paces. I am sure they will be taking them apart and finding out more about the car.
Whether P is right or wrong about the ring numbers is immaterial at this point. The GT-R has changed the perception enough that sooner rather than later Porsche will have to get on the ball. The introduction of the PDK in regular P-cars may be an example (Porsche says that they developed the technology 20 or so years ago and somehow are now making it available to the rest of us. Coincidence? Who knows!).
In the end, I expect that Porsche car fans will benefit. Mercedes started building better cars to meet Lexus' challenge. I expect that Porsche will do the same as well.
#254
10-04-2008, 05:08 PM
you're right, I think Porsche should do what Nissan has done and cheat and lie with their cars. Bring ringers, with racing tires and make videos of false runs. Hell Nissan is doing it.
It's amazing how in the one lap of america race the GTR came in 14th place behind to 996tt's, GT3's, vipers etc. It ran a high 12 quarter.
I just saw another GTR cut a mid 12 best. Not bad, but far from claimed. So who's writing the BS?
It's amazing how in the one lap of america race the GTR came in 14th place behind to 996tt's, GT3's, vipers etc. It ran a high 12 quarter.
I just saw another GTR cut a mid 12 best. Not bad, but far from claimed. So who's writing the BS?
#255
10-04-2008, 05:08 PM
Pete,
Agreed. What puzzles me is why Nissan didn't just claim some conservative number like 7:45. That would be a big victory in itself since the GT-R is so much cheaper than the Turbo.
The only thing I could think of is greed. Greed makes people stop thinking.
Agreed. What puzzles me is why Nissan didn't just claim some conservative number like 7:45. That would be a big victory in itself since the GT-R is so much cheaper than the Turbo.
The only thing I could think of is greed. Greed makes people stop thinking.
You're going to get plenty of argument about the links you've posted shortly.
I'll say that I believe the GTR is fast as hell. In good tune I fully believe it to be faster on most tracks than a stock 997 TT, and obviously easier to drive to boot.
I will say, however, that I still don't believe the ring time was a stock car. To counter that stock 11.5 at 121.7 time you also have 12.0 at 115 for the slower GTRs, so there is quite a "stock" spread. Even if they took that fastest tested one to the ring, there is video proof of the GTR out accelerating the 600 hp dodge viper ACR down the straight, which is a ~11.2 at 129+ car. There is no good explanation for the extra 7+ mph the GTR found other than significantly more than stock hp. Thus I believe the tested GTR was significantly quicker than customer cars.
That said, it's going to be significantly slower than most of the tuner versions out there, so it's still a damn quick car.
We'll know shortly- every magazine that can is bringing a GTR to the ring as we speak. I predict that none will duplicate the GTR's time with a stock car. Consider how bad that PR would be for Porsche- they claim Nissan is full of it, are proved wrong, and nissan gets 10x the publicity... The fact is they are damn sure that was a modded car- they have the same video evidence we all do, and it is possible to tell...
This is a good unbiased article on the subject:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/
-Pete
I'll say that I believe the GTR is fast as hell. In good tune I fully believe it to be faster on most tracks than a stock 997 TT, and obviously easier to drive to boot.
I will say, however, that I still don't believe the ring time was a stock car. To counter that stock 11.5 at 121.7 time you also have 12.0 at 115 for the slower GTRs, so there is quite a "stock" spread. Even if they took that fastest tested one to the ring, there is video proof of the GTR out accelerating the 600 hp dodge viper ACR down the straight, which is a ~11.2 at 129+ car. There is no good explanation for the extra 7+ mph the GTR found other than significantly more than stock hp. Thus I believe the tested GTR was significantly quicker than customer cars.
That said, it's going to be significantly slower than most of the tuner versions out there, so it's still a damn quick car.
We'll know shortly- every magazine that can is bringing a GTR to the ring as we speak. I predict that none will duplicate the GTR's time with a stock car. Consider how bad that PR would be for Porsche- they claim Nissan is full of it, are proved wrong, and nissan gets 10x the publicity... The fact is they are damn sure that was a modded car- they have the same video evidence we all do, and it is possible to tell...
This is a good unbiased article on the subject:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/
-Pete