997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#2701
And lastly, we were not inundated by repetative, circular arguments by non Porsche owners....
#2702
What are those excessive driver aids? It doesn't have anything the TT lacks-- it just implements them better.
What car or manuf "hosts a driving event series" using the off-the-showroom version of the primary variant of the car (versus a special "challenge" or "GT3" version?).
Agree that the GT-R is a street touring car not a racer (just like the TT), but what's your point.
What car or manuf "hosts a driving event series" using the off-the-showroom version of the primary variant of the car (versus a special "challenge" or "GT3" version?).
Agree that the GT-R is a street touring car not a racer (just like the TT), but what's your point.
My point is that in it's current state, especially the weight, it could not compete in racing. If AWD was eliminated to save weight along with the electronically adjustable suspension and the transmission changed for race duty would it still be a GT-R? How would it perform vs. the other cars listed? Much differently.
#2703
I agree that is a hard statement to back up. Lets see world beating means beating other cars to win the top award right?
Car of the Year Awards:
Motor Trend
Evo
Automobile
AutoCar
Top Gear (SUPER CAR of the Year)
Popular Science
Edmunds
Four Wheeler
Car of the Year Japan 2008-2009 Most Advanced Technology Award
Finalist:
Car And Driver Car of the Year
13th annual International Car of the Year Award (announced in January)
Yes this car does seem like and also ran with all of these accolades.... Magazine testing has shown the GT-R beating the Audi R8, 997 PDK, Gallardo LP560, Z06, 997TT, 997 GT3 and 997 GT2. For $75K that is a world beating, bargain priced super car.
Car of the Year Awards:
Motor Trend
Evo
Automobile
AutoCar
Top Gear (SUPER CAR of the Year)
Popular Science
Edmunds
Four Wheeler
Car of the Year Japan 2008-2009 Most Advanced Technology Award
Finalist:
Car And Driver Car of the Year
13th annual International Car of the Year Award (announced in January)
Yes this car does seem like and also ran with all of these accolades.... Magazine testing has shown the GT-R beating the Audi R8, 997 PDK, Gallardo LP560, Z06, 997TT, 997 GT3 and 997 GT2. For $75K that is a world beating, bargain priced super car.
The Aussies are eagerly anticipating the release of the GTR in Australia. Who can blaim them, at 150K - there is no other car that matches it. 997tt - 340K, Lambo LP540- 520K.
#2704
Don't forget it won the Wheels magazine '2008 drivers car' award in Australia as well. And the car hasn't even been released in Aussie land yet.
The Aussies are eagerly anticipating the release of the GTR in Australia. Who can blaim them, at 150K - there is no other car that matches it. 997tt - 340K, Lambo LP540- 520K.
The Aussies are eagerly anticipating the release of the GTR in Australia. Who can blaim them, at 150K - there is no other car that matches it. 997tt - 340K, Lambo LP540- 520K.
Yah the GTR came here and Ran the One Lap of America, a series of races across different tracks in the country. It came in 14th place overall, getting spanked by 996tt's, GT3's, Vipers. The GTR could not even make top 10
#2705
Here comes the question....
Do you want a car that wins mags or wins races? And add on to that.. Do you want a car that can repeat that over and over again at the next track event or sit out waiting for its brakes to cool, it fluids to stop boiling and its tires being replaced from chunking? Don't tell me that several mags have not chunked tires on this car. Of course you will blame it on the tire manufacturer right?
I am sorry - I didn't hear that...what was that again...?
Do you want a car that wins mags or wins races? And add on to that.. Do you want a car that can repeat that over and over again at the next track event or sit out waiting for its brakes to cool, it fluids to stop boiling and its tires being replaced from chunking? Don't tell me that several mags have not chunked tires on this car. Of course you will blame it on the tire manufacturer right?
I am sorry - I didn't hear that...what was that again...?
#2706
Me, apologist? Hey man, someone has to waive the flag.
I am disappointed about the LC/VDC situation, but it is hard for me to be indignant. All this was CLEARLY explained to me by the dealer. It is CLEARLY laid out in the special disclaimer thing they have you sign and CLEALY explained in the owners manual.
Look, I think in the future more and more cars will be engineered ASSUMING that an electronic nanny will protect the parts/systems. Many current cars already limit TQ in 1st gear, for example. All modern cars have electronic rev limiters-- even though we all know the cars can handle a bit more.
If you step back and remove your Nissan-hating glasses, you will conclude that at a high level it is a good thing for manufacturers to design cars for reliability IF AND ONLY IF the computer is placing some limits on driver inputs. I for one, don't want a drivetrain that is bulletproof for drop-clutch launches if it is 100 pounds heavier and $5K more to build (or whatever, you get my point).
I am disappointed about the LC/VDC situation, but it is hard for me to be indignant. All this was CLEARLY explained to me by the dealer. It is CLEARLY laid out in the special disclaimer thing they have you sign and CLEALY explained in the owners manual.
Look, I think in the future more and more cars will be engineered ASSUMING that an electronic nanny will protect the parts/systems. Many current cars already limit TQ in 1st gear, for example. All modern cars have electronic rev limiters-- even though we all know the cars can handle a bit more.
If you step back and remove your Nissan-hating glasses, you will conclude that at a high level it is a good thing for manufacturers to design cars for reliability IF AND ONLY IF the computer is placing some limits on driver inputs. I for one, don't want a drivetrain that is bulletproof for drop-clutch launches if it is 100 pounds heavier and $5K more to build (or whatever, you get my point).
Comon now, a rev limiter and traction control are two different things and cannot be compared. There are cars that come with tq management and that's to help with throttle application and putting power down. And yes some are designed also to prevent wheel hop and damage to drivetrain components. But there are several cars with DSG technology and you can fully disable the traction control without consequence in all the others.
And your whole last paragraph is apologizing again. Nissan's DSG has the most limitations of any other that's on the market. Sorry but I'd take the one with the least amount of limitations on it that one that's lighter and you have to drive around scared of breaking it all the time. There are GT-R owners that are scared to hit the gas pedal because of all the restrictions and warranty void statments. Hell give me a bulletproof manual T60 with a no lift shift on it all day over that.
#2707
What are those excessive driver aids? It doesn't have anything the TT lacks-- it just implements them better.
What car or manuf "hosts a driving event series" using the off-the-showroom version of the primary variant of the car (versus a special "challenge" or "GT3" version?).
Agree that the GT-R is a street touring car not a racer (just like the TT), but what's your point.
What car or manuf "hosts a driving event series" using the off-the-showroom version of the primary variant of the car (versus a special "challenge" or "GT3" version?).
Agree that the GT-R is a street touring car not a racer (just like the TT), but what's your point.
It has a DSG and much stickier tires. Both bigger drivers aids than any computer.
As far as drivers aids, it has much more computer involvement than anything Porsche offers.
#2708
#2709
As for tyres - your beloved GT3 comes with MPSCs.
As for DSG - the next version of your beloved GT3 will only be available with PDK.
The GT-R offers absolutely no more computer involvement than a 997 Turbo (in fact, the traction/stability programs are actually less of a hindrance in the GT-R in R Mode).
#2710
Vlad, have u driven the gt2 or 997tt?...PSM is very unobtrusive...
Last edited by bbywu; 12-29-2008 at 10:16 AM.
#2711
#2712
#2713
It's not less than PASM off now is it?
You cannot turn off the controls in the GT-R without consequence.
Not only that PSM is not that obtrusive if you can drive. Within a second of having the controls completely off in most models from factory test drivers in factory cars.
You are completely missing the objectives of the two systems. VDC is meant to make corrections for the driver, PSM is meant to show the driver where they made a mistake.
Nissan ran the ring with VDC off, so how much slower would even the ringer have been had they ran with it on? the GT-R is engineered for the car to do the driving, drive in deep, yank wheel, stomp gas and let the electronics sort it out. PSM or PASM is not even close to the same thing.
#2714
Did you find this out when you drove a GT-R? Oh, wait ...
#2715
How many times have you used that line in here? It's played out already. You can read anyone's driving impressions and they'll say the same thing I just posted about the GT-R. That you can "feel" the electronics sorting out the car in the turns. I know exactly how PASM and PSM work, and you wont find any person that will say it feels anything like that.
Your borrowed time in the GT-R means nothing here. Especially when we all know you aren't much of a driver by your own admission.
Your borrowed time in the GT-R means nothing here. Especially when we all know you aren't much of a driver by your own admission.