997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#2806
Id rather have a GT3 or a TT over a GTR any day of the week. I dont care how fast it is, lap times are not important outside of racing, driver enjoyment is.
#2807
When you make a claim based on research you have conducted, you must explain in great detail how you conducted that resaerch so that others can come along and duplicate your research and get the same results. If someone decides to duplicate your research and can't come up with the same results, your claim becomes highly questionable. An example would be "cold fusion". No one else has been able to duplicate cold fusion, so that claim is considered highly questionable. No one has been able to duplicate Nissan's claim, although Driver's Republic duplicated the Porsche engineer's claim and Von Surma's claim. And come on, Suzuki was never a Formula 1 ace, and the DR journalist is considered a very accomplished Nurburgring driver, having completed 24 hour indurance races there.
#2808
Agreed.
That's the problem, and the debate. No one can modulate slowing 4 different wheels simultaneously and conversely, no one can modulate 4 different wheels applying power, either.
The faster the production car, the more R&D required to tune the AWD to that edge.
So therefore, it's a driver's aid that increases complexity, expense, weight and since it's not a safety factor (brakes) but a go-faster factor, is it necessary? And, it isn't allowed in racing, either.
That's the problem, and the debate. No one can modulate slowing 4 different wheels simultaneously and conversely, no one can modulate 4 different wheels applying power, either.
The faster the production car, the more R&D required to tune the AWD to that edge.
So therefore, it's a driver's aid that increases complexity, expense, weight and since it's not a safety factor (brakes) but a go-faster factor, is it necessary? And, it isn't allowed in racing, either.
I'm not talking about science fiction or some entirely new concepts-- just the natural evolution of stability contol and AWD diffs-- all enhanced with better mechanical engineering and computer assist.
Guys: this is already happening.
Also, "VDC off" mode does not turn off the smart AWD system or the smart dual clutch. Maybe those should be considered "nannies" as well.
#2809
All times including those driven by the very fast guys could not come close to Nissan's lofty claims. Handling wasnt the issue but power. Simply put the cars in the 7:20's bracket are far mower powerful, far lighter and have far better aero. Nissan's claims is and has always been questionable when it came to the GTR and Nurbrugring.
but only professional F1 driver could do that ( Suzuki guy) but its still pretty amazing.
every 4wd system is understeery from factory so its safer that way for average joe.
Oh and how is it not suited for Nurburgring if they developed GT-R ON IT?
#2810
[media]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RbI93pXXGvk&fmt=18[/media]
According to Kimi Raikanon your braking points (4:32) are the ones that affect your lap times the most. The GTR is a very heavy car that according to Driver Republic simply cant brake as late or as well and last as long as other proper supercars.
According to Kimi Raikanon your braking points (4:32) are the ones that affect your lap times the most. The GTR is a very heavy car that according to Driver Republic simply cant brake as late or as well and last as long as other proper supercars.
#2811
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RbI93pXXGvk&fmt=18
According to Kimi Raikanon your braking points (4:32) are the ones that affect your lap times the most. The GTR is a very heavy car that according to Driver Republic simply cant brake as late or as well and last as long as other proper supercars.
According to Kimi Raikanon your braking points (4:32) are the ones that affect your lap times the most. The GTR is a very heavy car that according to Driver Republic simply cant brake as late or as well and last as long as other proper supercars.
well i heard otherwise. I think in Evo review?
well anyway im done discussing it, its pointless to argue with porsche fans here lol I dont own any of the cars, i like them both, and soon if I would make a purchase decision it would be a tough one.
#2812
[media]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RbI93pXXGvk&fmt=18[/media]
According to Kimi Raikanon your braking points (4:32) are the ones that affect your lap times the most. The GTR is a very heavy car that according to Driver Republic simply cant brake as late or as well and last as long as other proper supercars.
According to Kimi Raikanon your braking points (4:32) are the ones that affect your lap times the most. The GTR is a very heavy car that according to Driver Republic simply cant brake as late or as well and last as long as other proper supercars.
According to ChrisN (you are reading now-- no need for YouTube), lap times are the product of a complex set of variables.
Porsche has long been know for great breaking (rear engine helps). Add to that the fact that the GT2 is in different class as GT-R, so it is not surprising that it brakes better.
#2813
Interestingly in MT, Didier Theys ran the GT-R, GT2, 599 and ZR1. The GTR lapped the slowest in the tight Las Vegas infield.
And, like the also very heavy Ferrari, shredded a tire during the high speed testing which also took out some bodywork.
Now I know why the Veyron has such special tires.
Not sure what you mean by the 50% part.
Yes, those are nannies.
And, like the also very heavy Ferrari, shredded a tire during the high speed testing which also took out some bodywork.
Now I know why the Veyron has such special tires.
Yes, those are nannies.
#2814
I think he means price.
#2815
How is this babbling bs nonsense thread still going? What a waste of bandwidth. The mods should shut it down.
#2816
Regardless I'd love to try the GTR when the price plummet to under $50 K this summer.
Last edited by vincentdds; 01-05-2009 at 11:42 AM.
#2817
The track was moist when DR conducted the review as well as their GT-R had the Bridgestones (7:38 was it?). Nissan's lap was in the summer time using the Dunlops (7:29), that's a believable 9 secs on such a huge track.
I love both the TT and the GT-R and if I was to own one of these great cars it'll be the TT (quality, leather, looks, seating position, heritage, and Porsche simply won't put a function in their cars unless it's 100% safe to use everytime, anytime) , but I don't question Nissan's claims at all.
I love both the TT and the GT-R and if I was to own one of these great cars it'll be the TT (quality, leather, looks, seating position, heritage, and Porsche simply won't put a function in their cars unless it's 100% safe to use everytime, anytime) , but I don't question Nissan's claims at all.
#2818
Who cares about a few seconds a lap on a road car that most will never drive on the track. All this bickering just so you can brag to people, it’s faster then so and so and cost this much less. The driver has more to do with how fast a car is then anything. This isn’t F1 anyway, it’s the average everyday world!
#2819
The track was moist when DR conducted the review as well as their GT-R had the Bridgestones (7:38 was it?). Nissan's lap was in the summer time using the Dunlops (7:29), that's a believable 9 secs on such a huge track.
I love both the TT and the GT-R and if I was to own one of these great cars it'll be the TT (quality, leather, looks, seating position, heritage, and Porsche simply won't put a function in their cars unless it's 100% safe to use everytime, anytime) , but I don't question Nissan's claims at all.
I love both the TT and the GT-R and if I was to own one of these great cars it'll be the TT (quality, leather, looks, seating position, heritage, and Porsche simply won't put a function in their cars unless it's 100% safe to use everytime, anytime) , but I don't question Nissan's claims at all.
And bridgestones are better in the wet, better than both MPSC and Dunlops, so the GT-R technically had an advantage over the GT2 in the DR test and was suited with the best fit tires for the test.
Chris commented on how the GT-R sturggled with oversteer more than the GT2. I'd bet money the private owner of the GT-R had the most aggressive suspension settings you could get on that car, imagine how bad it would have been if he had on tires that are worse in wet conditions???
#2820
Rally driving and circuit driving do not follow the same concept in the least. Try to cross examine benefits from the rally course to the street cicuit is useless, unless we are talking about a drift contest.
BOTH 7:38 and 7:29 runs had the DUNLOP TIRES.
And bridgestones are better in the wet, better than both MPSC and Dunlops, so the GT-R technically had an advantage over the GT2 in the DR test and was suited with the best fit tires for the test.
Chris commented on how the GT-R sturggled with oversteer more than the GT2. I'd bet money the private owner of the GT-R had the most aggressive suspension settings you could get on that car, imagine how bad it would have been if he had on tires that are worse in wet conditions???
BOTH 7:38 and 7:29 runs had the DUNLOP TIRES.
And bridgestones are better in the wet, better than both MPSC and Dunlops, so the GT-R technically had an advantage over the GT2 in the DR test and was suited with the best fit tires for the test.
Chris commented on how the GT-R sturggled with oversteer more than the GT2. I'd bet money the private owner of the GT-R had the most aggressive suspension settings you could get on that car, imagine how bad it would have been if he had on tires that are worse in wet conditions???
example...In the Nov. 2008 car and driver the GT-R ran a 2:55.6 around the virginia international speedway. The ACR Viper pulled a 2:48.6....seven full seconds on a 4.2 mile course!
BTW the GT-R only outpaced a Z51 Corvette by 5.8 seconds around the same track.