997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#271
That said, when porsche releases a performance figure their average car will hit them. The 'ring times they release are usually within a few seconds of independent testers, and the 0-60 time magazines get is usually quicker than Porsche's figures. Where as it seems Nissan has not only released a ring time ~20+ seconds faster that independent tests.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. There's too much bias against the GT-R right from the get-go. I still remember the whole 997TT vs. C6 Z06 debate and even that rivalry is nothing compared to what's being perpetuated for the 997TT vs. GT-R brouhaha by parties on both sides. You gotta admit that this kind of hostile environment is no good for a completely unbiased and objective view on things. Too much conspiracy theories out there.
I still believe that this whole 'Ring time debate will be clearer once Sport Auto did its Supertest for the GT-R. Too bad it won't happen until next year.
#272
Edit- I see you're aware of that test, and I assume you'll say it's pre-production. Might be...
I don't disagree the environment here is very anti-GTR, which I don't like. Which doesn't mean Nissan didn't stretch the facts with that time...
Last edited by petevb; 10-05-2008 at 01:21 AM.
#273
The 7:38 sounds suspiciously fast to me. Clearly a very fast example could achieve that, but I doubt it would be representative of production cars. No data to back that up, just a gut feel.
#274
Oh, the desperate fanboys, filing in by the droves only to quote the same magazines over and over.
Just like I said that car and driver would change it's driver lineup to benefit the GT-R, the supertest is now huge, and you can bet Nissan will get a fast car to be tested. If Horst runs 10+ seconds slower than Nissan, game over.
And for the 91 octane excuse, there is plenty of 93 octane in the cars that are trapping 114 on the east coast. And more than likely 98 or better in the ones that arent.
Just like I said that car and driver would change it's driver lineup to benefit the GT-R, the supertest is now huge, and you can bet Nissan will get a fast car to be tested. If Horst runs 10+ seconds slower than Nissan, game over.
And for the 91 octane excuse, there is plenty of 93 octane in the cars that are trapping 114 on the east coast. And more than likely 98 or better in the ones that arent.
#275
To me, even more bothersome than the shameful 7:29, is the way that this company advertised and publicized ring data with pre-meditated intention to trick inexperienced writers (Edmunds) and customers, and the way Nissan owners then innocently bought into the myth and helped "spread the message" without regard for reasons and logic.
The other point that I need to emphasize is that if a river has so many alligators that swimmers are not allowed to swim, what's the point of discussing how long it takes to cross that river? GT-R owners ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RACE, what's the point of discussing track times?
It seems the dike is broken and said owners are entering capitulating phase; there simply are too many issues with this car. If for example miracle did happen and the GT-R did make the 7:29 fantasy, there are STILL many other issues to deal with: the ugliness, the heaviness, the warranty, the transmission, etc., etc. So many problems so early in the life of this car.
My conclusion was and is: Good and fast car, but heavy and built to be cheap, and therein lie the many problems.
The other point that I need to emphasize is that if a river has so many alligators that swimmers are not allowed to swim, what's the point of discussing how long it takes to cross that river? GT-R owners ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RACE, what's the point of discussing track times?
It seems the dike is broken and said owners are entering capitulating phase; there simply are too many issues with this car. If for example miracle did happen and the GT-R did make the 7:29 fantasy, there are STILL many other issues to deal with: the ugliness, the heaviness, the warranty, the transmission, etc., etc. So many problems so early in the life of this car.
My conclusion was and is: Good and fast car, but heavy and built to be cheap, and therein lie the many problems.
Last edited by cannga; 10-05-2008 at 08:11 AM.
#276
Originally Posted by Galactus
I actually think that the GT-R is capable of a 7:38 time around the Ring. The 7:29 time I think probably had the Spec V engine software and exhaust system installed, but there is no doubt that the Dunlop tires they installed for that run are worth a few seconds around a 13 mile track.
Last edited by petevb; 10-05-2008 at 08:14 AM.
#277
Let me try this again. 3rd time I'm gonna ask these questions which I believe are pretty relevant if you guys really want to be unbiased, questions which kept on being ignored:
1.) Do any of you actually believe that a Porsche test engineer managed a time of 7:38 for the 997TT, even one shod with MPSCs? Keep in mind that HvS only managed 7:54 during Sport Auto's Supertest, and yes, the one he drove was also shod with MPSCs, and the lap was done on a closed track.
1.) Do any of you actually believe that a Porsche test engineer managed a time of 7:38 for the 997TT, even one shod with MPSCs? Keep in mind that HvS only managed 7:54 during Sport Auto's Supertest, and yes, the one he drove was also shod with MPSCs, and the lap was done on a closed track.
2.) If that Porsche test engineer is actually so good to be able to get that 7:38 997TT time (and he should be really good if his 997 GT2 time is 7:34), how come his GT-R time of 7:54 is 4 seconds slower that HvS' shakedown time (7:50) of a pre-production GT-R, on a partially wet and open track? Could it be that the Porsche test engineer is out of his element with the GT-R, being used to Porsches in general and the 911 platform in particular? Or maybe the Porsche representative who made the statement simply plucked the 7:38 time out of thin air?
#278
GT-R owners ARE NOT ALLOWED TO RACE, what's the point of discussing track times?
It seems the dike is broken and said owners are entering capitulating phase; there simply are too many issues with this car. If for example miracle did happen and the GT-R did make the 7:29 fantasy, there are STILL many other issues to deal with: the ugliness, the heaviness, the warranty, the transmission, etc., etc. So many problems so early in the life of this car.
My conclusion was and is: Good and fast car, but heavy and built to be cheap, and therein lie the many problems.
-Tires that last 5k miles (not including track) (if you want mag type handling)
-Most likely getting a 114-116 mph trapping car
-7k to change pads and rotors
-Incredible maintenance costs which will become even bigger after warranty
-$1800 service within some many miles/days after a track event
-Features on the car that will void your warranty if you use them and it breaks.
-Parts on the car that are weak and will break leading to the above.
-Tansmission whine and other random noises.
-A stiff ride.
-Nissan Service and delivery
And
The majority of GT-R's wont even be tracked, so the hype is so abundantly useless it's rediculous. Many of the fanboys won be able to afford the high maintenance that increases exponentially when tracking it. So now you have the mag hype car that you can talk about what it "could" do on the track, while you get left by M6's, AMG's and the like on the highway. There will always be more vids like that than GT-R's on the track.
All for a car that is still a drivers race with a Z06 and TT, and when the tires are equalized, as will happen most times at the track, you will probably find yourself eating dust.
And if you count the maintenance of tracking over a period of time, the GT-R after so many years will end up being well over the 100k range. You cant even get track tires without buying new wheels. And the MSRP has increased once already and will increase again next year. So how is that value???? By the time the Spec-V comes out, the base GT-R will be amost 90k. And the fanboys actually think the Spec will only be 100k. HAHAHAHAH
#279
And who would realistcally buy an out of warranty GT-R??? You have no idea how many launches are on the tranny, and the max limit is said to be 200. If someone has it for three years, that's a big risk. If you choose wrong, it's 18k on your used car (just to keep it running).
The expensive annual service costs are now yours to foot as well as the usual Ferrari type maintenance, which will result in a tank in value of the used and out of warranty cars. So now you have to pay 18k (plus crazy maintenance) to keep your GT-R, that's now worth 35k running. No one will touch them with a ten foot pole.
Nissan didnt think this out very well. This car will not hold value like the NSX/Supra over here, that tranny killed it.
Some people think Nissan beat Porsche to the punch by releasing the GT-R with DSG before Porsche did with the PDK. But who's laughing now??? Porsche had enough sense to can the idea for the release of the 997 TT when they blew up the test PDK's, Nissan put them in there anyways knowing they would blow up, and tried to give themselves an out with the disclaimer and control it with the VDC. I'm glad Porsche waited to do things right.
The expensive annual service costs are now yours to foot as well as the usual Ferrari type maintenance, which will result in a tank in value of the used and out of warranty cars. So now you have to pay 18k (plus crazy maintenance) to keep your GT-R, that's now worth 35k running. No one will touch them with a ten foot pole.
Nissan didnt think this out very well. This car will not hold value like the NSX/Supra over here, that tranny killed it.
Some people think Nissan beat Porsche to the punch by releasing the GT-R with DSG before Porsche did with the PDK. But who's laughing now??? Porsche had enough sense to can the idea for the release of the 997 TT when they blew up the test PDK's, Nissan put them in there anyways knowing they would blow up, and tried to give themselves an out with the disclaimer and control it with the VDC. I'm glad Porsche waited to do things right.
#280
Damned fun read, I've got to side with the porsche owners.. it makes no sense how the GTR can keep up on the straights, Ive had the fortunate luck to roll on with a GTR, and its pretty even with me edging away by mid 3rd, and the gtr reeling me back in once im into 5th after 115. I trap 115 mph. A z06 slaughters me from a roll in that same mph range.. its not even close, its just a whoring.. and for the gtr to keep up on the straights, thats soo so wrong.
05 EVO VIII, usual boltons, IX turbo @ 24 psi on 93.
05 EVO VIII, usual boltons, IX turbo @ 24 psi on 93.
#281
05's were Evo VIII???? So the Evo IX was only for three years???
#282
Like the old saying goes... cheap, reliable, fast...choose two.
#283
pc or mac?
#284
#285
ubuntu...