997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#346
10-06-2008, 04:16 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: north carolina
Age: 56
Posts: 196
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finallllllllllllly!
I am sure the results are 100% correct. GTR was slower then 911TT and GT2 when driven by Porsche engineer. But I have to ask you, what incentive does Porsche engineer have to drive GTR at its limit, possibly beating his own creations?
Would you guys have believed the story if it was the other way around?
One positive note is that Porsche is taking on the competition seriously. This is good news for the next generation 911TT.
Would you guys have believed the story if it was the other way around?
One positive note is that Porsche is taking on the competition seriously. This is good news for the next generation 911TT.
#347
10-06-2008, 04:56 PM
I the great "Mizuno" understands your situation you're stuck with(For $30 which one should I pick? Porsche 911 diecast or a GTR Poster with a 7.29 ring time ?) but I shall forgive you and forget about the street talk thing "***" you still wanna talk about the word disrespectful ? 
Has anyone asked >YOU< to speak in behalf of other GTR owners or are you doing this on your own to stir P00P all over the forums ? are you expecting an owner to throw a GTR key at you for nutswinging ?? Try visiting the dealer, I'm sure they'll let you sit in one but without the keys.
You're a good man!
I apologize for being rude
Mizuno-San (Chief engineer of the entire GTR project)
Has anyone asked >YOU< to speak in behalf of other GTR owners or are you doing this on your own to stir P00P all over the forums ? are you expecting an owner to throw a GTR key at you for nutswinging ?? Try visiting the dealer, I'm sure they'll let you sit in one but without the keys.
You're a good man!
I apologize for being rude
Mizuno-San (Chief engineer of the entire GTR project)
#348
10-06-2008, 05:03 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 
Heavy, I said "the GT-R that traps at the same speed as a GT3/ M6 should slightly walk away from it after 130, not the other way around."
This takes out any of the variables you mention. Power and AWD drag are both already accounted for, as is weight. It's basically a drag war, and that's one the GT-R will win. Now if the GTR traps slower all bets are obviously off...
This takes out any of the variables you mention. Power and AWD drag are both already accounted for, as is weight. It's basically a drag war, and that's one the GT-R will win. Now if the GTR traps slower all bets are obviously off...
This was not meant to be that complicated. I think the average M6 or GT3 would have a good chance on pulling on the average GT-R. Anyone who's driving the M's know they have abnormal acceleration for their weight and size at high speeds. The GT-R is the opposite, most of the owners find it docile accelerating and it falling flat after 100 mph.
In fact in certain tests, the M6 has been faster than the 997 TT from 60-120. The 997 TT is pretty much faster than the GT-R in accel at any speed. So that says what?
Let's see some real world stuff.
#349
10-06-2008, 05:19 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551
Anyone counting the number of noob troll fanboys joining 6speed just to argue?? I'm thinking about 10 or so in this thread.
How about this scenario:
1) Nissan does nothing but say they didnt cheat, their history is already very questionable. The time will be considered fake by many enthusiasts. GT-R = teh fail by reputation and association.
2) Nissan challenges Porsche and Porsche doesnt respond Porsche = teh lose
3) Nissan challenges and Porsche accepts but Nissan cant duplicate 7:29 or very close in a verified showroom GT-R = teh fail (much more to lose for Nissan here)
4) If Porsche ties the GT-R at the ring with the TT, then the GT-R = fail again, because it wont have run 7:29, and Porsche has a lot more to offer than a lap speed (service, delivery, features you can actually use). The 997 TT is WORTH more than a GT-R. END OF STORY!!!!
All conspiracy aside, Nissan has to duplicate the 7:29'ish run with a proven beyond a shadow of a doubt factory GT-R. Porsche has a reputation that goes far beyond it's ring time, the GT-R does not have the same luxury.
And this is all assuming Nissan will actually do something, which judging by their recent statment "It's not up to us to explain why they couldnt match our time" doesnt sound like it's going to happen. So dont get your hopes up fanboy.
How about this scenario:
1) Nissan does nothing but say they didnt cheat, their history is already very questionable. The time will be considered fake by many enthusiasts. GT-R = teh fail by reputation and association.
2) Nissan challenges Porsche and Porsche doesnt respond Porsche = teh lose
3) Nissan challenges and Porsche accepts but Nissan cant duplicate 7:29 or very close in a verified showroom GT-R = teh fail (much more to lose for Nissan here)
4) If Porsche ties the GT-R at the ring with the TT, then the GT-R = fail again, because it wont have run 7:29, and Porsche has a lot more to offer than a lap speed (service, delivery, features you can actually use). The 997 TT is WORTH more than a GT-R. END OF STORY!!!!
All conspiracy aside, Nissan has to duplicate the 7:29'ish run with a proven beyond a shadow of a doubt factory GT-R. Porsche has a reputation that goes far beyond it's ring time, the GT-R does not have the same luxury.
And this is all assuming Nissan will actually do something, which judging by their recent statment "It's not up to us to explain why they couldnt match our time" doesnt sound like it's going to happen. So dont get your hopes up fanboy.
I respect Porsche and think that their cars are the absolute best value for the money but i think they've just dug a grave for themselves by claiming that Nissan is lying without any hard evidence. You see, if Nissan decided to challenge Porsche to a contest around the Nurb where each company use their best drivers and the cars are independently verified to be stock, then Nissan has nothing to lose and is in a win-win situation, while Porsche has A LOT to lose, and here's why;
1) If Porsche backs out - game over. Everyone, even their most devoted customers or fanboys will have no defense for them, not even HC. Their reputation and image will go down the drain.
2) If Porsche agrees and the 911 turbo is as fast as the GTR - Nissan has won, cos the GTR is the same performance as the turbo but at half the price. Furthermore it underlies the false claim by Porsche that the GTR is some 16 sec slower than the turbo according to their own testing.
3) If the 911 turbo loses to the GTR - then it would be a major embarrassment to Porsche and they'll lose all credibility.
Now leaving the current ring time conspiracy theory's aside, for Porsche to win - the turbo has to BEAT THE GTR CONVINCINGLY at the Nurb. From all the magazine tests and real life tests from owners so far - i pretty much doubt it. Lets hope for Porsche's sake that Nissan does not want to start trouble. Worrying times ahead for the men at Stuttgart......
1) If Porsche backs out - game over. Everyone, even their most devoted customers or fanboys will have no defense for them, not even HC. Their reputation and image will go down the drain.
2) If Porsche agrees and the 911 turbo is as fast as the GTR - Nissan has won, cos the GTR is the same performance as the turbo but at half the price. Furthermore it underlies the false claim by Porsche that the GTR is some 16 sec slower than the turbo according to their own testing.
3) If the 911 turbo loses to the GTR - then it would be a major embarrassment to Porsche and they'll lose all credibility.
Now leaving the current ring time conspiracy theory's aside, for Porsche to win - the turbo has to BEAT THE GTR CONVINCINGLY at the Nurb. From all the magazine tests and real life tests from owners so far - i pretty much doubt it. Lets hope for Porsche's sake that Nissan does not want to start trouble. Worrying times ahead for the men at Stuttgart......
#351
10-06-2008, 05:46 PM
ENOUGH with the jibber jabber talk fanboy
I am Kazutoshi Mizuno a very well respected engineer that's been working for Nissan Motor Company to prove something, unlike you a fanboy that doesn't even exist in the real world.Now sit back, relax and take a deep breath in and as you breath in, count to 4.
Now scroll down and see what the future holds for you and the rest of the fanboys which I'd say 75% by early Jan 2009
"My first mod"
Improves the following:
- Drag coefficient lowered from 0.27 to 0.21
- Ring time (test driver Walter R) *HONEST*
*Before: 7.38(911 Turbo Killer)
*Now: 7.31(GT2 Killer - HELL YEAH!)
- EPA Mileage Estimate (City/Highway)
*Before: 16 mpg / 21 mpg
*Now: 31 mpg / 36 mpg
#353
10-06-2008, 06:04 PM
Now doesn't that remind you of the 7.38 ring time that my beloved company announced last year ?
Can you say coincidence ?
#354
10-06-2008, 06:46 PM
#355
10-06-2008, 06:50 PM
ENOUGH with the jibber jabber talk fanboy I am Kazutoshi Mizuno a very well respected engineer that's been working for Nissan Motor Company to prove something, unlike you a fanboy that doesn't even exist in the real world.
Now sit back, relax and take a deep breath in and as you breath in, count to 4.
Now scroll down and see what the future holds for you and the rest of the fanboys which I'd say 75% by early Jan 2009
"My first mod"
Improves the following:
- Drag coefficient lowered from 0.27 to 0.21
- Ring time (test driver Walter R) *HONEST*
*Before: 7.38(911 Turbo Killer)
*Now: 7.31(GT2 Killer - HELL YEAH!)
- EPA Mileage Estimate (City/Highway)
*Before: 16 mpg / 21 mpg
*Now: 31 mpg / 36 mpg
I am Kazutoshi Mizuno a very well respected engineer that's been working for Nissan Motor Company to prove something, unlike you a fanboy that doesn't even exist in the real world.Now sit back, relax and take a deep breath in and as you breath in, count to 4.
Now scroll down and see what the future holds for you and the rest of the fanboys which I'd say 75% by early Jan 2009
"My first mod"
Improves the following:
- Drag coefficient lowered from 0.27 to 0.21
- Ring time (test driver Walter R) *HONEST*
*Before: 7.38(911 Turbo Killer)
*Now: 7.31(GT2 Killer - HELL YEAH!)
- EPA Mileage Estimate (City/Highway)
*Before: 16 mpg / 21 mpg
*Now: 31 mpg / 36 mpg
that's just wrong
This car is a Joke ..
#357
10-06-2008, 09:58 PM
#358
10-06-2008, 10:15 PM
Is the GT-R fast? Yes. Is it faster than the 997TT? Don't know.
Conspiracy theories aside, the question is...does it really matter? Would anyone here choose differently if the GT-R was or was not faster? It's a fast and relatively cheap car, but in no way does it approach the overall package of looks, performance, and luxury of the 997TT IMO.
I wouldn't own a GT-R...it's not a good fit for me. Anyone who chose a 997TT could have had one, or possibly 2 GT-Rs instead and didn't. How many stock 997TTs are there out there anyway? This is one of the easiest cars to modify and if 600hp isnt enough for street driving then I don't know what is.
In the end, it only benefits us as Porsche will up the ante in one way or another.
Conspiracy theories aside, the question is...does it really matter? Would anyone here choose differently if the GT-R was or was not faster? It's a fast and relatively cheap car, but in no way does it approach the overall package of looks, performance, and luxury of the 997TT IMO.
I wouldn't own a GT-R...it's not a good fit for me. Anyone who chose a 997TT could have had one, or possibly 2 GT-Rs instead and didn't. How many stock 997TTs are there out there anyway? This is one of the easiest cars to modify and if 600hp isnt enough for street driving then I don't know what is.
In the end, it only benefits us as Porsche will up the ante in one way or another.
#359
10-06-2008, 10:37 PM
I have nothing against the GTR, but everything against it's promoters(Nissan) for trying to destroy an icon to gain sales and reputation instead of earning it through hard work, and I am sure it is working against them now. There is no doubt the GTR is a fast car and will be competetive in all levels. They should have let the car stand on it's own merits like Mitsubishi does with the EVO and Sub does with the Sti, but instead they cheated and made it out to be more than it is just to attempt to get sales away from the 911. What they did not bargain is that they cannot take sales away from the 911 for many reasons, one of which is performance. The main reason? History. The winningest racing car company in history, the winningest racing sports car in history, the winningest racing engine in history (although the chevy smallblock comes close), the engine that has won LeMans and manufacturers championships more than any other engine and company. And this is the same engine you get in the 997TT/996TT/GT3. Get the picture. Not only would I not take a GTR over a 997TT, but I would not take it over a 996TT, a 993TT, nor any mint condition normally aspirated mint condition 911.
Oh by the way, the 911 just won the petit Lemans Manufacturers championship again.
Do you guys get the picture. It isn't just about being fast, it's the whole package, something the GTR won't have in our lifetime. Would I buy a GTR? If I was going for a ZO6, I might have to compare to the GTR, but honestly the Corvette is another icon, some look down on it's low tech engineering, but it works and it is true muscle, again an icon with history and another engine that has a win record rarely rivaled anywhere, so in the end I would still take a ZO6 over a GTR anyday simply because of it's iconic history of which Nissan has none.
THE END!
Oh by the way, the 911 just won the petit Lemans Manufacturers championship again.
Do you guys get the picture. It isn't just about being fast, it's the whole package, something the GTR won't have in our lifetime. Would I buy a GTR? If I was going for a ZO6, I might have to compare to the GTR, but honestly the Corvette is another icon, some look down on it's low tech engineering, but it works and it is true muscle, again an icon with history and another engine that has a win record rarely rivaled anywhere, so in the end I would still take a ZO6 over a GTR anyday simply because of it's iconic history of which Nissan has none.
THE END!
Last edited by Prche951; 10-06-2008 at 10:40 PM.
#360
10-06-2008, 10:51 PM
Prche951 - some would argue that the GT-R has had some very good history behind it. 
I agree with you in regards to a car is more than just a track time. It's an overall package and for me the 911 fits the bill. Even more so with the new Direct Injection Motors. They have managed to get better fuel consumption, faster 0-60's, 85% better emissions and more hp/torque through engineering. To top it off they even made the engine lighter and with less parts. You can slap a SuperCharger on a 7 liter motor and call it what you want. But it takes engineering to get it down to 3.8 liters and make things better than before.
I agree with you in regards to a car is more than just a track time. It's an overall package and for me the 911 fits the bill. Even more so with the new Direct Injection Motors. They have managed to get better fuel consumption, faster 0-60's, 85% better emissions and more hp/torque through engineering. To top it off they even made the engine lighter and with less parts. You can slap a SuperCharger on a 7 liter motor and call it what you want. But it takes engineering to get it down to 3.8 liters and make things better than before.