so wait did you guys miss this gem of a quote from what Mizuno posted.

http://www.rennteam.com/showthreaded...04&page=0&vc=1


"The US spec GT-R accelerated on a par with the new PDK 997 C2, whereas the japanese spec GT-R we drove the following day was able to pull away from the 997.

Tyre wise we found that the GT-R's cornerspeed was up with (and beyond) the 997 GT2 (fitted with Michelin Cups), but the GT-R was at least 10mph slower than the GT2 on the straights. Despite this straight line disadvantage the GT-R was still quicker around a lap than the GT2, and that wasn't due to tyres nor a modified engine."

You fanboys are really smart. and very selective in your logical deduction.

Hammad

 

Its really interesting to watch HC and his cheerleaders bring up proof to back their fanboy statements but in most instance its shown the GTR to be faster. and then there is a barrage of excuses and debunking of the obvious, mix in some conspiracy theory. You have to realize the simplest answer is probably the most correct one. The GTR is easier to drive then the 997 there fore making it faster. now go to bed with that.

Hammad

 

It is obvious that Nissan is using N ringers. Absolutely no other way to explain it. Unless, of course, they have invented some kind of "Mass Neutralizer" machine. You know, like they use in Star Trek to make starships go faster than light. Maybe so.

 

Go back to post #463. Mizuno admitted to using slicks. Then he changes his story. I smell a rat! I don't believe anything they say. Go back to the NAGTROC thread and cheer those guys up who are pissed about exploding trannys and 20 grand to change a clutch. You can be a cheerleader for those guys as they begin their class action suit.

 

If you have driven on a track, you'd know how retarded that is. If the GT-R was cornering that fast, it would negate the straight line difference on the straight , because it would lose less speed during the turn. The GT-R is not that slow to give up 10 mph on the straight with a higher exit speed. And it's not outbraking the GT2 by some large margin if any at all.

Keep reading that thread, I'm not the only one saying this. It's **** poor rigged driving to ruin 10 mph of straight line speed. You'd have to be plum stupid to beleive the GT-R would be beating the TT by 2 seconds and the GT2 by one second when it's on better tires.

But dont worry, you arent the only one.

 

By the way, those dudes in Japan will never know if they can pull away from the PDK 997 because they can't go over 112mph!

 

I have countless track miles and about 6 years of HPDE and time trial exp.I currently instruct for speedventures our local HPDE association. I never tend to be one of the slower guys on the track so i know a thing or 2 about track dynamics. I also have enough experience with Porsche's to know what makes them great and what makes them not so great. you need to realize just because you and a few other dont believe something or think it is not possible does not make it so. high speed stability and driver confidence will be the deciding factor in many of these comparisons. As many of these results have shown the GTR is faster on most tracks when compared to a 997 turbo. I only say most because they have not been compared on all as of yet. the record however stands in the GTR's favor. crying ringer is not going to change this fact. there is no doubt about this and you should acknowledge it. once we get that far we can start a constructive argument up until that point this is just meaningless bickering.

Hammad

 

If you go over to the Corvette forums, they are praising Porsche for calling Nissan out! They can see the BS too. It isn't just Porsche fans.

 

HC, this new guy's a low poster. Another troll?

 

Great post. But the argument is that and still is, it doesn't make any sense how is it possible for the GTR to obtain 7:29 with nearly 4000lbs and 485hp, you have to be open minded about that. I can almost guarantee the car that was tested was at least 540hp and with better tires, that's the only explanation i can think of, and of course there is also the driver factor. In regards to the bickering or hate going on right now, you have to realize and acknowledge that this is a Porsche forum, it's just the way it is. It would be nice if the discussion can be more constructive and civil, but you're always going to have people that would make it into a pissing contest and be a complete tool about it.

 

Countless track miles heh? So the 10 mph difference on the straights doesnt raise a red flag to you? Does it not make any sense to you that if the GT-R was exiting corners so much faster, it has enough hp left to keep from being left on the straight by 10 mph????

Obviously not.


Besides, the ringers evidence is in plain sight. If the GT-R got left by 10 mph on a straight at Silverstone, imagine what even faster accelerating cars woud do to it on a straight as long as the back straight at the ring??? Yet the GT-R actually out accelerates them for certain parts of the straight. Sorry, but you are just ignorng the facts if you cant see that.

 

Exactly. Now you see what we've been complaining about. The GT-R car tested not only might have different tires, more powerful engine, stiffer suspension, but might also be stripped of a whole lot of stock weight as well -- in other words, 7:29 happened, but it wasn't a stock car.

As far as healthy discussion, I agree with you, it might be too late now. As Heavychevy's third friend on this forum, I could tell you what happened. HC asked SEVERAL times that GT-R posts be made in GT-R section, for the simple reason that they are repetitive in the information posted, evaluated by amateurs, and are based on news (7:29) that is very much debatable; he was rudely ignored along with many regrettable personal insults whenever someone lost an argument against him, which, funny enough, happened quite often. What you see now is the full reaction of a forum who has had enough of the GT-R's very questionable "greatness". I don't want to be vengeful, but these guys deserve the full wrath that is HC's debating skill, tenacity, and fantastic car knowledge.

Lately, I've been thinking that the small team of engineers who developed the GT-R did not do adequate homework with respect to longevity of the car. If I owned a GT-R, I would unload it IMMEDIATELY and wait for next generation tranny. I said it before, and I am saying it again, before anyone talks of how "revolutionary" the GT-R is, think of its near 4000 lbs weight and the fact that it is made to be cheap ("on a budget").

 

I don't have a problem with HC and most of his post that i've seen and read. Because he actually makes sense, most of the time, and he's knowledge and post are mostly insightful. It's idiots and trolls like Mizuno/Alt-nick that is not needed although i have to admit that some of them are funny. But the reality is, if you feed the troll like Mizuno, then you'll invite more troll. Back on topic, like i've said and posted before, i do believe that 7:29 is possible, but i also believe that the GTR that was used for that run has more than 485hp, probably around 540hp minimum, and it might just be possible with that much power, better tires, excellent condition, and phenomenal driver. And not to mention the 4wd system and DSG tranny. I also still think that if Porsche does not come out with any proof of their 7:54 claim of the GTR, then they're lying just like Nissan did. JMHO.

 

Please provide this evidence. I am open minded enough to agree with you granted you post something other then subjective conspiracy theories.

I also acknowledge that this is a Porsche forum and such posts should be in the GTR section. I have read a huge chunk of this thread since its inception.

All i have seen are claims from HC about cars. he often uses the lower end of the GTR 1/4 mile spectrum to paint his picture when in fact the stock GTR's mean trap has shifted to around 120 mph (right where it should be for the vehicles weight and power). As far as the 10 mph discrepancy il give you a small analogy we tell our students in regards to passing etiquette. It involves the Viper and the Miata. in all fairness a viper can idle down a straight faster then a Miata at full song. But if at any time during the track that Miata appears in your rear view its more then likely he is turning a faster if not similar lap to that viper.

So lets analyze what a 10 mph difference on the main straight tells you about any given cars.
1) it tells you the car that achieved the higher speed has more power (correct me if im wrong)
Porsche GT2 more power then a GTR (check)

Does it tell you anything about the handling capabilities of either car? (no it does not)

The other part of the equation is the actual lap time. lets analyze that statement. Car A runs a faster lap then Car B

that tells us that either Car A has more power or is better handling then car B. we know Car A is not more powerful then Car B then where does that leave us?

we both know that a road racing track is more then just a front straight. so it is absolutely absurd to make such assumptions as you have just based off of this tid-bit of information much like the assumptions you have been making through out this thread. again correct me if you feel im being unfair. If Car A can average 1-2 mph higher through out the track then Car B it will open up a gap that a 10 mph difference on 1 straight will not make up.

Hammad

 

Yes I think the 7:54 is entirely possible. For two reasons:

1. Nissan's own chief engineer said most laps come between 7:55 and 7:58 right about the time of the car's introduction. "Adjustment" after this is another myth among the many myths of this car . http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../FREE/71017001

2. Unbelievably, we are now hearing of GT-R's with different or wide variations of power delivery/rating (?!). This car frankly is shrouded in controversies and explanations, and to me that's a sign of a car made on a budget and someone is lying.

Lastly, what Porsche says is the least of Nissan's problems. This is: http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....pic=25361&st=0