997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#61
09-30-2008, 08:26 PM
Aero cant do that much to make up for the weight/power differences. These cars arent in the same category.
ZR-1 3300/640 -------------> 5.15/1 lbs per hp
Zonda 2700/600------------> 4.5/1 lbs per hp
GT-R 3800/500 (high end)---> 7.6/1 lbs per hp
The Z06 has a higher Cd, and poor gearing after 150 and still beat the GT-R by 7 seconds to 170 mph Also the GT-R has a large frontal area, so the Cd doesnt tell the whole story. I can assure you that through power and gearing the ZR-1 is faster by a good bit than that Z06at higher speeds.
Whatever the GT-R gained in aero would be lost by AWD drag. Power may not be going to the wheels, but there are still moving parts.
ZR-1 3300/640 -------------> 5.15/1 lbs per hp
Zonda 2700/600------------> 4.5/1 lbs per hp
GT-R 3800/500 (high end)---> 7.6/1 lbs per hp
The Z06 has a higher Cd, and poor gearing after 150 and still beat the GT-R by 7 seconds to 170 mph Also the GT-R has a large frontal area, so the Cd doesnt tell the whole story. I can assure you that through power and gearing the ZR-1 is faster by a good bit than that Z06at higher speeds.
Whatever the GT-R gained in aero would be lost by AWD drag. Power may not be going to the wheels, but there are still moving parts.
the 7:29 besides teh stickier dunlop tires was also a result of some mid cycle stiffening changes they made to JDM spec cars?
And i dont recall reading about awd loss, i think they somehow aliminate it??? with some kind of Chuck Norris bearings? I might be wrong tho.
Anyhow... I suggest making an appointment with GTR team and talk to them lol
I will also double check on the awd power loss I think i remember reading something about that.
I still think its a great car! Weather or not its a 7:29 or 7:55 car. But would like to see how will it last and depreciate with time.
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#62
09-30-2008, 08:45 PM
Heavy-
You mentioned a headwind for the ZR1- do you have a link to that and how much? Can we also find whp numbers for the GTR and ZR1 (ideally on the same type of dyno) and actual measured weights for the cars? I can run the numbers- I'm curious to see how much power that GTR had to be making to stick with the ZR1... Is there just that one side-by-side video?
You mentioned a headwind for the ZR1- do you have a link to that and how much? Can we also find whp numbers for the GTR and ZR1 (ideally on the same type of dyno) and actual measured weights for the cars? I can run the numbers- I'm curious to see how much power that GTR had to be making to stick with the ZR1... Is there just that one side-by-side video?
#63
09-30-2008, 08:51 PM
Heavy-
You mentioned a headwind for the ZR1- do you have a link to that and how much? Can we also find whp numbers for the GTR and ZR1 (ideally on the same type of dyno) and actual measured weights for the cars? I can run the numbers- I'm curious to see how much power that GTR had to be making to stick with the ZR1... Is there just that one side-by-side video?
You mentioned a headwind for the ZR1- do you have a link to that and how much? Can we also find whp numbers for the GTR and ZR1 (ideally on the same type of dyno) and actual measured weights for the cars? I can run the numbers- I'm curious to see how much power that GTR had to be making to stick with the ZR1... Is there just that one side-by-side video?
here is interview with Development driver
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=3TuORaiLzX8
Chief Engineer
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=nSlTgc...eature=related
You see what they did is completely rethink all the aspects and developed an extrodinary car. And even if it ran 7:38, i think they did awesome job.
#64
09-30-2008, 08:57 PM
Nissan engineers insist the GT-R really does only have 480hp. Motohiro Matsumura, president of Nissan Technical Center North America, Inc. in Farmington Hills, Michigan, says our dyno test story which revealed the GT-R develops 430hp at the wheels is basically right. But he insists our estimate of a minimum 15 percent friction losses -- which suggests the GT-R is making 507hp -- is wrong. Matsumura-san says ultra-low friction bearings in the wheel hubs and transmission, plus the careful alignment of the all-wheel drive system's propshafts, mean friction losses are reduced to an unprecedented 10 percent or so. We're going to get a GT-R back and conduct some coast-down tests to see if he's right.
So thats why some people count 15 to 20% awd loss when dynoing it and end up saying it has 550 hp when in fact the awd loss is only 10%.
Anyway... let's continue out journey of exploring this wonderful car lool.
So thats why some people count 15 to 20% awd loss when dynoing it and end up saying it has 550 hp when in fact the awd loss is only 10%.
Anyway... let's continue out journey of exploring this wonderful car lool.
Last edited by Vladcanada; 09-30-2008 at 09:00 PM.
#66
09-30-2008, 09:18 PM
as you say here I subscribed.Im just tired of seeing this. And this indeed is kind of interesting and intriguing at the same time, plus with this news lets see if anyone can prove heavychevy wrong and we can put this to the rest lol
In my opinion I think its doable as this car is so balanced so electronically advanced, super smart awd, gearbox placed at the back to balance it out ETC, and on top of that nuderburgring is so long that i believe GTR in fact could collect 0.5 seconds here 0.5 second there and at the end it in fact did it 7:29 with that great driver, it is just well balanced well gripping car. I mean personally for some reason I see it. It was developed to do this specific thing! To rethink redo and re****with the world. It succeeded good. I dont see why its hard to believe. Would be fun to see statistic of how many runs did GTR do compared to 997 turbo.
im 200% sure Porsche could do the same tho maybe not at the same price tho.
p.s I dont bash on cars I usually post some comparison tests etc
i love porsches! 997 tt is great car! I respect many many cars, German, Japaneese or American! Love em all
Last edited by Vladcanada; 09-30-2008 at 09:23 PM.
#67
09-30-2008, 09:21 PM
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Heavy-
You mentioned a headwind for the ZR1- do you have a link to that and how much? Can we also find whp numbers for the GTR and ZR1 (ideally on the same type of dyno) and actual measured weights for the cars? I can run the numbers- I'm curious to see how much power that GTR had to be making to stick with the ZR1... Is there just that one side-by-side video?
You mentioned a headwind for the ZR1- do you have a link to that and how much? Can we also find whp numbers for the GTR and ZR1 (ideally on the same type of dyno) and actual measured weights for the cars? I can run the numbers- I'm curious to see how much power that GTR had to be making to stick with the ZR1... Is there just that one side-by-side video?
LOL, I was just going to mention your name to run the numbers. I was trying to find some Cd numbers on the ZR-1 but couldnt, likely higher than the Z though.
There arent many Dyno's out just yet for the ZR-1, and the one Ive seen doesnt say which type but mentions the GT-R at 420. It would be overestimating the intellegence of mag writers to assume they took dyno type into consideration.
What muddys the water is nissan's claimed driveline loss, so if you use that, the crank hp figure comes out much lower. And we cant tell from the street cars, because most of them are trapping like a 480 hp 3800 lbs car (114-116) but one here and there does a 119-121 (claimed anyways) which would be more like 500+ hp.
The GT-R has been weighed at 3836, and the ZR-1 is more like 3350 but I dont have an actual weight.
That's all I've got.
#68
09-30-2008, 09:24 PM
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#70
09-30-2008, 09:29 PM
I will agree with HC on something, I still don't see how the GT-R was running with the ZR-1 down the back straight. It's virtually impossible unless it was tweaked.
The 7:38 they stated at first sounded reasonable. I'll give them that. It's a little quicker than a Z06 on most tracks. But to lop 9 seconds off time that is damn near impossible on a bone stock car.
The 7:38 they stated at first sounded reasonable. I'll give them that. It's a little quicker than a Z06 on most tracks. But to lop 9 seconds off time that is damn near impossible on a bone stock car.
Last edited by JFrazier; 09-30-2008 at 09:31 PM.
#71
09-30-2008, 09:33 PM
Porsche will always be > Nissan. period!
this is like when the NSX came out and thereafter Ferrari and other companies went full force to blow away any other Japanese car...Ferrari clearly did that after NSX. the GTR surprised Porsche [even if it is slower]...we will indeed (hopefully!!!!) see some bad *** Porsches coming out soon whereas a R36 GTR will take many years to come out...
i love competition when it improves what seems like already perfect porsches...
#72
09-30-2008, 09:38 PM
Again, that was done with stiffer suspension which they've changed sometime later right? so stiffer suspension could shave some off. But was 7:38 and 7:29 run by same drivers??? Can anyone confirm? If not maybe a 7:29 driver (suzuka guy right?) felt more comfortable ( or was offered a 1.000.000 + threesome with hot chicks)and pushed the car to a complete limits and didnt crash and got 7:29 out of it? Whatever it was, I think its a great achievement in Human race
and will push other auto manufacturers to push the envelope and make cars fly!
#73
09-30-2008, 09:51 PM
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It is a bit puzzling considering the ZR-1 has 640 hp and is lighter
+ is only channeling its power through two wheels.
I have to say i didn't rate the driver who took it for it's ring lap.
Some of the entry's to the corners were somewhat creative
I think the Zr-1 should be capable of a 7 min high teens lap.
And in the beauty stakes the ZR-1 wins hands down.
It is a stunning car!
+ is only channeling its power through two wheels.
I have to say i didn't rate the driver who took it for it's ring lap.
Some of the entry's to the corners were somewhat creative
I think the Zr-1 should be capable of a 7 min high teens lap.
And in the beauty stakes the ZR-1 wins hands down.
It is a stunning car!
#74
09-30-2008, 09:54 PM
I didn't like the GTR when I drove it. It's probably very fast, but a few seconds on a 7 minute track means nothing to me. Personally I'd rather have a stock Carrera, or Cayman than a GTR.
John
John
#75
09-30-2008, 09:57 PM
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The vast majority of fanboys are in denial, none will admit that it's a very legit point, and there is nothing to support the findings other than a souped GT-R. Nothing whatsoever. The sheer fact that they wont acknowledge it is enough to know that they are worried about it too. Combined with all the 114 mph traps we are seeing, and it's really starting to add up.
Anyone who isnt totally engulfed in mag articles, and stuck on the GT-R is scratching their head too, with skepticism. Then we are left to wonder how many press cars are more like the ring cars and not the street cars.
There has been one customer car that's been tested against the TT twice. While the TT was drifting, the GT-R won by one second in the first test, complete b.s. of a test with the GT-R owner present and running up and down pit ane jumping for joy, and the same car, but now modded, driven by Bruno Senna was .3 quicker than the TT.
Anyone who isnt totally engulfed in mag articles, and stuck on the GT-R is scratching their head too, with skepticism. Then we are left to wonder how many press cars are more like the ring cars and not the street cars.
There has been one customer car that's been tested against the TT twice. While the TT was drifting, the GT-R won by one second in the first test, complete b.s. of a test with the GT-R owner present and running up and down pit ane jumping for joy, and the same car, but now modded, driven by Bruno Senna was .3 quicker than the TT.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-30-2008 at 10:07 PM.