997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#76
09-30-2008, 10:06 PM
The vast majority of fanboys are in denial, none will admit that it's a very legit point, and there is nothing to support the findings other than a souped GT-R. Nothing whatsoever. The sheer fact that they wont acknowledge it is enough to know that they are worried about it too. Combined with all the 114 mph traps we are seeing, and it's really starting to add up.
I'm 95% sure this car is all what it is. Im a believer!
#77
09-30-2008, 10:29 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
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Legal proof?? That's a joke. Dont bother repsonding if that's what you're going to say.
You just cant accept that Nissan is still up to their cheating ways, and the fall of the ring time means the fall of all the garbage testing and propaganda. Fanboys are shaking in their boots, because as the GT-R makes it's living on the Net, so will it die as it gets exposed.
You just cant accept that Nissan is still up to their cheating ways, and the fall of the ring time means the fall of all the garbage testing and propaganda. Fanboys are shaking in their boots, because as the GT-R makes it's living on the Net, so will it die as it gets exposed.
#78
09-30-2008, 10:37 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 Possiblity my behind!!!!! And just like the typical fanboy to resort to personal attacks while I beat you across the head with evidence.
Not one decent counter point, just trying to make it an arguement. Trust me, you'll be gone long before I give in to that nonsense.
Let me know when you have some useful information for the car guys who are trying to figure out this occurance and are willing to see it for what it's worth and not just here to defend their sacred cow.
#80
09-30-2008, 10:50 PM
Possiblity my behind!!!!! And just like the typical fanboy to resort to personal attacks while I beat you across the head with evidence.
Not one decent counter point, just trying to make it an arguement. Trust me, you'll be gone long before I give in to that nonsense.
Let me know when you have some useful information for the car guys who are trying to figure out this occurance and are willing to see it for what it's worth and not just here to defend their sacred cow.
Not one decent counter point, just trying to make it an arguement. Trust me, you'll be gone long before I give in to that nonsense.
Let me know when you have some useful information for the car guys who are trying to figure out this occurance and are willing to see it for what it's worth and not just here to defend their sacred cow.
what evidence? You dont have any. Its just big fat assumptions of yours, just like mine. There's video proof of Nissan running it. There's proof of people testing it, independing testing, street race's, magazines, and every single of them say 1 thing "amazing". Does it proof somthing? You my friend is in big denial, GTR is just like Iphone, a breakthrough technology. You either love it or hate it.... you defenetly hate it, you for some reason dont want it to be faster then z06 and 997tt. It is, but its ok if it is, people wont sell their beloved cars and run to GTR, well some did or might, but all of the car have their own specific charachter. Its great and healthy to have such choice. When we have a solid proof then we say BOOOOO NISSAN. But i doubt that will happen with all the great reviews around it.Anyway. I'm tired for today. But i'll be seeing you tomorow
#82
09-30-2008, 11:07 PM
Heavy,
What section of the video are you referring to where they are even?
I'm looking at this video, and I'm timing them starting at around 6:43 when they pass under the first bridge on the back straight:
[media]http://videos.streetfire.net/video/ZR1-vs-GTR-at-the-Ring_170827.htm[/media]
I then stop them when they get to the 2nd bridge.
For the ZR1, using the ZR1s clock, I get 6:42 to 7:04.9 bridge to bridge.
For the GTR using the GTRs clock I get 6:44.5 to 7:08.9 bridge to bridge.
This works out to 22.9 seconds vs 24.4, or about 165 mph average speed for the ZR1 vs 155 mph average for the GTR, which seems somewhat believable. Were you looking at a different point in the video?
The ZR1 dynos at 535 at the wheels, ~.32 CD and ~2.16 m^2 frontal area (based on it's tested 206 mph top speed), guessing 3480 lbs with driver and 1/2 fuel.
The GTR dynos at 420 at the wheels, .27 claimed CD and 2.09 m^2 frontal area (very low drag), est 4030 with driver.
Based on these numbers, for the GTR to stay even with the ZR1 in the 130-170 range it would either need to put roughly 550 hp to the wheels, or the ZR1 would need a roughly 30 mph headwind to slow it down...
What section of the video are you referring to where they are even?
I'm looking at this video, and I'm timing them starting at around 6:43 when they pass under the first bridge on the back straight:
[media]http://videos.streetfire.net/video/ZR1-vs-GTR-at-the-Ring_170827.htm[/media]
I then stop them when they get to the 2nd bridge.
For the ZR1, using the ZR1s clock, I get 6:42 to 7:04.9 bridge to bridge.
For the GTR using the GTRs clock I get 6:44.5 to 7:08.9 bridge to bridge.
This works out to 22.9 seconds vs 24.4, or about 165 mph average speed for the ZR1 vs 155 mph average for the GTR, which seems somewhat believable. Were you looking at a different point in the video?
The ZR1 dynos at 535 at the wheels, ~.32 CD and ~2.16 m^2 frontal area (based on it's tested 206 mph top speed), guessing 3480 lbs with driver and 1/2 fuel.
The GTR dynos at 420 at the wheels, .27 claimed CD and 2.09 m^2 frontal area (very low drag), est 4030 with driver.
Based on these numbers, for the GTR to stay even with the ZR1 in the 130-170 range it would either need to put roughly 550 hp to the wheels, or the ZR1 would need a roughly 30 mph headwind to slow it down...
LOL, I was just going to mention your name to run the numbers. I was trying to find some Cd numbers on the ZR-1 but couldnt, likely higher than the Z though.
There arent many Dyno's out just yet for the ZR-1, and the one Ive seen doesnt say which type but mentions the GT-R at 420. It would be overestimating the intellegence of mag writers to assume they took dyno type into consideration.
What muddys the water is nissan's claimed driveline loss, so if you use that, the crank hp figure comes out much lower. And we cant tell from the street cars, because most of them are trapping like a 480 hp 3800 lbs car (114-116) but one here and there does a 119-121 (claimed anyways) which would be more like 500+ hp.
The GT-R has been weighed at 3836, and the ZR-1 is more like 3350 but I dont have an actual weight.
That's all I've got.
There arent many Dyno's out just yet for the ZR-1, and the one Ive seen doesnt say which type but mentions the GT-R at 420. It would be overestimating the intellegence of mag writers to assume they took dyno type into consideration.
What muddys the water is nissan's claimed driveline loss, so if you use that, the crank hp figure comes out much lower. And we cant tell from the street cars, because most of them are trapping like a 480 hp 3800 lbs car (114-116) but one here and there does a 119-121 (claimed anyways) which would be more like 500+ hp.
The GT-R has been weighed at 3836, and the ZR-1 is more like 3350 but I dont have an actual weight.
That's all I've got.
#83
09-30-2008, 11:18 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551
Vlad, have you ever taken the time to think since Nissan fudged on the ring car, that the press cars woud have been fudged too? And therefore would go right down the drain with it?? Leaving it (and you guys) with virtually nothing.
Did it ever occur to any of you the desperation Nissan had for getting good press since it's a worldwide launch. And then to be caught here testing and only barely matching the TT, while knowing it was slower in a straight line, after all that time of parading around. So souping up the ring car would grab headlines and help sell more cars??? You guys underestimate the car makers.
Either way, car may be great, not saying it isnt. But I'm saying there is no way in hell it would run that straight at the same speed as those other cars, not the one that you have, or that people are buying from the dealer.
Did it ever occur to any of you the desperation Nissan had for getting good press since it's a worldwide launch. And then to be caught here testing and only barely matching the TT, while knowing it was slower in a straight line, after all that time of parading around. So souping up the ring car would grab headlines and help sell more cars??? You guys underestimate the car makers.
Either way, car may be great, not saying it isnt. But I'm saying there is no way in hell it would run that straight at the same speed as those other cars, not the one that you have, or that people are buying from the dealer.
#84
09-30-2008, 11:24 PM
here some 1/4 runs on the tubes which is higher then you CLAIM 114 -116 mph. Here's video proof!
1. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGLXQMwVJHw&feature=related[/media]
2. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHHx6EtsUiE&feature=related[/media]
3. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGLXQMwVJHw&feature=related[/media]
4. moded and fastest up to date i belive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_EU...eature=related
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-9v8...eature=related sure low trap but 11.6 is pretty respectable.
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFyaH...eature=related tuned too i think.
7. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbg89R9jH5U&feature=related[/media]
1. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGLXQMwVJHw&feature=related[/media]
2. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHHx6EtsUiE&feature=related[/media]
3. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGLXQMwVJHw&feature=related[/media]
4. moded and fastest up to date i belive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_EU...eature=related
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-9v8...eature=related sure low trap but 11.6 is pretty respectable.
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFyaH...eature=related tuned too i think.
7. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbg89R9jH5U&feature=related[/media]
Last edited by Vladcanada; 09-30-2008 at 11:31 PM.
#85
09-30-2008, 11:31 PM
Now bad news is that i do not completely agree with you. while i can agree that the car on the 7:29 "might" be a ringer with mods and rubber, there's research done by petevb:
For the ZR1, using the ZR1s clock, I get 6:42 to 7:04.9 bridge to bridge.
For the GTR using the GTRs clock I get 6:44.5 to 7:08.9 bridge to bridge.
This works out to 22.9 seconds vs 24.4, or about 165 mph average speed for the ZR1 vs 155 mph average for the GTR, which seems somewhat believable. Were you looking at a different point in the video?
what do you have to say about it?
Here is the VIDEO proof for GT-R 7:29 Record Preparation Run, all we need is translation! You can see the new suspension, and i bet he is talking about new stiffer suspension and hardware they installed. If anyone can translate, that would help to heal heavychavy disbelief, be kind to him and translate PLEASE. Im very worried about him as a fellow 6speed fella.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lCv1...eature=related
Last edited by Vladcanada; 09-30-2008 at 11:35 PM.
#86
09-30-2008, 11:41 PM
and regarding MAG TESTING this is a good video clip from car and driver, listen from 1:30 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83ZW...eature=related
also LISTEN to this man Fast forward to 4:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XiPabAyP4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83ZW...eature=related
also LISTEN to this man Fast forward to 4:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XiPabAyP4U
Last edited by Vladcanada; 09-30-2008 at 11:48 PM.
#87
09-30-2008, 11:47 PM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 Heavy,
What section of the video are you referring to where they are even?
I'm looking at this video, and I'm timing them starting at around 6:43 when they pass under the first bridge on the back straight:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Z...ing_170827.htm
I then stop them when they get to the 2nd bridge.
For the ZR1, using the ZR1s clock, I get 6:42 to 7:04.9 bridge to bridge.
For the GTR using the GTRs clock I get 6:44.5 to 7:08.9 bridge to bridge.
This works out to 22.9 seconds vs 24.4, or about 165 mph average speed for the ZR1 vs 155 mph average for the GTR, which seems somewhat believable. Were you looking at a different point in the video?
The ZR1 dynos at 535 at the wheels, ~.32 CD and ~2.16 m^2 frontal area (based on it's tested 206 mph top speed), guessing 3480 lbs with driver and 1/2 fuel.
The GTR dynos at 420 at the wheels, .27 claimed CD and 2.09 m^2 frontal area (very low drag), est 4030 with driver.
Based on these numbers, for the GTR to stay even with the ZR1 in the 130-170 range it would either need to put roughly 550 hp to the wheels, or the ZR1 would need a roughly 30 mph headwind to slow it down...
What section of the video are you referring to where they are even?
I'm looking at this video, and I'm timing them starting at around 6:43 when they pass under the first bridge on the back straight:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Z...ing_170827.htm
I then stop them when they get to the 2nd bridge.
For the ZR1, using the ZR1s clock, I get 6:42 to 7:04.9 bridge to bridge.
For the GTR using the GTRs clock I get 6:44.5 to 7:08.9 bridge to bridge.
This works out to 22.9 seconds vs 24.4, or about 165 mph average speed for the ZR1 vs 155 mph average for the GTR, which seems somewhat believable. Were you looking at a different point in the video?
The ZR1 dynos at 535 at the wheels, ~.32 CD and ~2.16 m^2 frontal area (based on it's tested 206 mph top speed), guessing 3480 lbs with driver and 1/2 fuel.
The GTR dynos at 420 at the wheels, .27 claimed CD and 2.09 m^2 frontal area (very low drag), est 4030 with driver.
Based on these numbers, for the GTR to stay even with the ZR1 in the 130-170 range it would either need to put roughly 550 hp to the wheels, or the ZR1 would need a roughly 30 mph headwind to slow it down...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SrfxIQIzI
Even using their own clocks:
The GT-R crosses under the first bridge at ~6:45.2 or so (you can still see the sign from the in car vid @ 6:45.0 so not possible to be 6:44.9) and under the second at ~7:08.9, that's about 23.7x,
The ZR-1 crosses under the first bridge at ~6:42.00 and the second at 7:05.0x which is 23 seconds.
It's not a 1.5 second gap, even using the clocks on their individual screen. .5-.7 max.
The ZR-1's top speed isnt aero limited, it's rev limited, so your frontal area calculation is likely off by quite a bit. More than likely the frontal area is smaller than the GT-R. The Z06 is gear limited because 6th is useless, so there can be no frontal area calc from that either. And that will exhaggerate the wind affect on the ZR-1 as well.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-30-2008 at 11:57 PM.
#88
09-30-2008, 11:55 PM
I don't necessarilly believe the 7:29 time with only 485hp and at 3800lbs regardless of AWD and with better tires, but i find it even harder to believe that it will only do 7:54 according to the test that Porsche conducted. In comparison, the new CTS-V with 550hp and 4200lbs did 7:55 and the e92 M3 with 414hp and 3600lbs did 8:05. That means it's only 0.1 seconds faster than the CTS-V and only 11 seconds faster than the M3. This is more questionable IMO. I think 7:40 to 7:45 is more believable.
#89
09-30-2008, 11:57 PM
This is the vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SrfxIQIzI
Even using their own clocks:
The GT-R crosses under the first bridge at ~6:45.2 or so (you can still see the sign from the in car vid @ 6:45.0 so not possible to be 6:44.9) and under the second at ~7:08.9, that's about 23.7x,
The ZR-1 crosses under the first bridge at ~6:42.00 and the second at 7:05.0x which is 23 seconds.
It's not a 1.5 second gap, even using the clocks on their individual screen. .5-.7 max.
The ZR-1's top speed isnt aero limited, it's rev limited, so your frontal area calculation is likely off by quite a bit. And that will exhaggerate the wind affect on the ZR-1 as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3SrfxIQIzI
Even using their own clocks:
The GT-R crosses under the first bridge at ~6:45.2 or so (you can still see the sign from the in car vid @ 6:45.0 so not possible to be 6:44.9) and under the second at ~7:08.9, that's about 23.7x,
The ZR-1 crosses under the first bridge at ~6:42.00 and the second at 7:05.0x which is 23 seconds.
It's not a 1.5 second gap, even using the clocks on their individual screen. .5-.7 max.
The ZR-1's top speed isnt aero limited, it's rev limited, so your frontal area calculation is likely off by quite a bit. And that will exhaggerate the wind affect on the ZR-1 as well.
#90
10-01-2008, 12:01 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 and regarding MAG TESTING this is a good video clip from car and driver, listen from 1:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83ZW...eature=related
also LISTEN to this man Fast forward to 4:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XiPabAyP4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q83ZW...eature=related
also LISTEN to this man Fast forward to 4:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XiPabAyP4U
Car and Driver said the GT-R trapped 124 when it was due to a bad correction adjustment on their part which they put into print so that we could see PROOF that it wasnt even close. (119). They gave it a correction factor for an NA car.
And all he talked about was the launch which you can still get a decent trap speed with a crappy launch. Guys are getting 1.8 60' which is the same as the 121 trapping car and running 114. Where is the consitency in that???