Not that I am a huge supporter of surveys, but JD Power has usually ranked initial quality just average for Nissan, but really high for Porsche. Funny thing is...when you look at dependability surveys, Porsche and Nissan kind of even out.

 

The only problem with JD is that it's usually a short term study. Something like 3-9 months or maybe a year. I'm not surprise that Porsche is more reliable, it's even better than Toyota/Lexus.

 

Just read this thread to understand what is going on. No one is trying to stir up Cayman owners

 

I think he's referring to me as the member trying to stir things up. I have a Cayman S and have been a memeber of the Cayman Club since it started back in the winter of 2005. There are those who post on the Cayman Club website who bring up the GTR and rave about what a great car it is. I am just trying to point out that it ain't the car folks think it is. I have no regrets trying to stir things up, Nissan started this fight by aiming dead at Porsche and lying about ring times to prove they have a superior product. It's becoming pretty obvious they have produced a piece of junk and on Porsche's behalf I want people on the Cayman Club (CC) website to know it. I get a lot of my ammunition from this site . I don't believe most of the members on the CC website know about the problems croping up with the GTR. I can appreciate other makes even though Porsche is my favorite make, but in the case of the GTR, the crap they are pulling is so low and so obvious, they need to catch hell for it.

By the way, this is the first I have seen indicating that the new Porsche Turbo may not get PDK because of it's huge torque:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/171008_Mo...8_motor002.php

In that case, it looks like Nissan has made a big mistake putting a duel clutch on the GTR. Even Porsche may not touch it in the case of the Turbo.

 

What makes it obvious underrating??

Nothing about it's acceleration, which is where it would show. Therefore, it's not underrated.

I dont see how a car with similar weight/power as M6 and GT3 running similar trap speeds and only better ET's due to better launch capabilites means the car is underrated.

Dyno testing is a circus and most people agree that it's only good for measuring baseline for the model line and for people who intend on getting mods. The only real dynos are engine dynos and maha's.

 

Torque is the reason the PDK isnt in the 997 TT already which is where is was scheduled to show up first. They kept blowing up because of it. The PDK that Porsche has designed is very compact and very lightweight compared to others.

I think it just wasnt cost effective for the 997 TT before, so they couldnt dedicate the resources to making one beefy enough to withstand the TT. With the new motor going in, this could all change very soon.

This is speculation as to if it's financially feasible to make a strong enough unit. The only thing that's for sure is that Porsche will not release the tranny if you cant ragdoll it and not bat an eyelid.

Putting in a DSG is a huge deal, Nissan tried to shortcut it, and it could destroy the GT-R when the used ones start tanking in value because of tranny woes.

 

true but we all kow nissans loss numbers are BS just like the rest of their GTR campaign. There is no way that an all wheel drive car is putting out 10% loss. Impossible. RWD cars aren't that lucky.

 

I have heard this too about dyno testing. It just goes to show that many folks (and I have been guilty of this also) put too much weight on things like dynos and numbers in magazine road tests. I guess the thing that really tells the story is a long history of success in sanctioned auto races.

 

the only real dyno is the pavement and I have yet to see a real life GTR break below the 12's.

The guy I saw at the track did not use launch control and did not want to. He did 117-118 mph trap speed and his times varied from 12.41 best to 12.88. He did about 5 runs that night.

 

well, I never heard of 60-130 until I joined this forum and I think that is a great way to test power. You are mostly out of the tire spin zone, the bad launch zone and the too many shifts zone. It is a great way to see which car is producing the most power I think. I'd like to see a GTR do a verified 60-130, the owner then would not have to worry about buying a new $20k tranny

 

I honestly don't believe that the GTR is only losing 10%, i'm not saying it's impossible i just don't believe it, not from Nissan especially not now.

HC, you and i will never agree about this and i'm not trying to convinced you either. This is my opinion and belief and you have yours. There's actually a regression that was done in M3post that shows how the GTR is under-rated in comparison to other cars that was tested in The Ring.

 

How then could it be underrated? Even the 11's @120 and 121 only suggest hp at about 500 or a tad above.

The 996 and 997 TT's are only 15%, so with the DSG being more along the lines of a more efficient SMG it makes plenty of sense that since the attessa is based on the same concept as the TT's AWD that it could lose less through the drivetrain.

 

Here's something I've been wondering about. All these tranny failures not only reflect poorly on Nissan, but shouldn't they also reflect on the company that helped Nissan develop the duel clutch transmission (I can't remember who, Borg-Warner?). Anyway, either that company was too incompetent to realize the tranny wasn't going to take the power of the twin turbo motor, or, they must have warned Nissan this was going to happen. Assuming the company wasn't incompetent, wouldn't you expect them to come out and say "We warned Nissan they were gonna fail when launched!" in order to protect their image? I'm just wondering what that company has to say about all this.

 

Borg-Warner makes the transmission, they have their own transmission. And seeing as Nissan has given them an award for innovation (assumingly for making an affordable unit capable of "handling" the power of the GT-R).

But Nissan is screwing them by putting a 4500 dump clutch LC in the car to get mag numbers. That will kill ANY clutch, and Nissan did a hack job of developing the car around it. They just tossed it in there. I'm sure Borg Warner is upset, but they have their own reputation and arent reliant on Nissan.

They build the M3's tranny too, and Audi engines and various other MAJOR things. The recall in Japan was due to Nissan's poor application of the oil supply that caused the tranny's to fail. The trannies are excellent, the application is not.

DSG were not too long ago considered only to be able to handle certain amounts of power that were really low. This was a big question on the GT-R when it came out because the only car to put big hp/weight numbers on a DSG was the Veyron, but it's a 1.5m car. So they had a much bigger budget on the tranny and it's got much more developement.

Borg Warner has nothing to worry about.

 

I got to tangle with one yesterday at NJMSP, fast car....but not fast enuff for 'ole blue!