997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#1036
You can do all the nerdy analysis you want but at the end of the day - nothing beats REAL testing.
It's like trying to analyze what ice cream tastes like based on the ingredients its made up of. You might get close but in no way will you be as precise as a REAL taste test.
It's like trying to analyze what ice cream tastes like based on the ingredients its made up of. You might get close but in no way will you be as precise as a REAL taste test.
I bet you barely read 1/3rd of what I wrote and understood even less.
If you do not understand the ability of basic science and mathematics to shred ridiculous claims of unethical marketeers you have some things to learn.
Perhaps you have heard the following funny saying about simulation. "No one believes the simulation except the person who conducted it. Everyone believes the test except the person who conducted it." Both ways of drawing conclusions can be fraught with difficulty and inaccuracy.
Let me end with a question. WHICH test do you believe for the 1/4 mi time and trap for "the" GT-R?
#1037
Let's have some real world comparisons on a level playing field. Bring the GTR to the 2009 24 hours of Nurburgring. Bring more than one.
#1038
Oh great, we have another HC on our hands. Can i call you HC junior? Do yourself a favour - if you and your "scientifically brilliant" buddies think that you are so good, why don't you guys apply for a job at NASA instead of wasting your time on chat forums like this?
I can see the acclaim you guys will be getting already: This just in from NBC news. Group of internet forum "wonder kids" prooved that Nissan faked the 7:29 Nurb time. They calculated that based on the nationality, age, weight, skill and what the driver ate on the day along with the brand name, brand name, brand name, weather, track conditions, windspeed, etc that the GTR could only do a time of 7:54 +/- 0.5 sec.
This was all the more remarkable since all the extensive scientific calculations were done at home without ever needing to sit in the car or even drive it at the track.
Moral of the story? All automotive manufactures out there - hire these guys ASAP. No need to do extensive R&D anymore and waste money. Just whip up a car base on these guys calculations and have it manufactured straight away.
I can see the acclaim you guys will be getting already: This just in from NBC news. Group of internet forum "wonder kids" prooved that Nissan faked the 7:29 Nurb time. They calculated that based on the nationality, age, weight, skill and what the driver ate on the day along with the brand name, brand name, brand name, weather, track conditions, windspeed, etc that the GTR could only do a time of 7:54 +/- 0.5 sec.
This was all the more remarkable since all the extensive scientific calculations were done at home without ever needing to sit in the car or even drive it at the track.
Moral of the story? All automotive manufactures out there - hire these guys ASAP. No need to do extensive R&D anymore and waste money. Just whip up a car base on these guys calculations and have it manufactured straight away.
Just FYI I work for a company that supplies NASA with the software tools they need since their engineers and organization are not as capable nor do they have the expertise we do.
Why post it forums? It is fun, that simple, why do you? I enjoy applying science to the automotive arena. I would never use that skill working for a large automobile company though, just my preference.
Your ignorance about the level of science, engineering, simulation and software used to design cars these days from Hyundai's to Ferrari's is laughable. Most large companies (especially automotive) do nearly complete virtual product development in which their products are designed, drawn, documented, tested, and assembled by computer. As well all of the NASA folks you seem to idolize use the exact same kinds of tools.
Good day.
#1039
Porsherboy definitely = Z07.
He tries multiple personality tricks every time he comes back but in the end it's the same ole Z07.
He tries multiple personality tricks every time he comes back but in the end it's the same ole Z07.
#1040
Hi guys, my first post here (obviously). Briefly, I am a long term Porsche fan, but have yet to own one. One of my favorite P cars is the Carrera GT, heavenly to watch in motion and to hear as well. I currently have an E92 M3. I appreciate the performance per dollar ratio compared to Porsche with this car.
I have lurked around here a lot especially on this very interesting thread. I very much enjoyed the skepticism and analysis of the GT-R. I have posted quite a bit on this topic over at m3post.com. In my recent work I used CarTest physics based automobile performance software along with a lot of regression analysis to make some predictions about the power of the 7:29 GT-R "specimen" in particular. I'll "force" you to head over there rather than blow the "surprise" of my conclusion right away. This effort was definitely inspired by the work here of HC and petevb - thanks guys. Have a look here if interested. I know quite a few of you will be. Warning: Long, technical and pretty nerdy!
Cheers guys.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-The late Carl Sagan
I have lurked around here a lot especially on this very interesting thread. I very much enjoyed the skepticism and analysis of the GT-R. I have posted quite a bit on this topic over at m3post.com. In my recent work I used CarTest physics based automobile performance software along with a lot of regression analysis to make some predictions about the power of the 7:29 GT-R "specimen" in particular. I'll "force" you to head over there rather than blow the "surprise" of my conclusion right away. This effort was definitely inspired by the work here of HC and petevb - thanks guys. Have a look here if interested. I know quite a few of you will be. Warning: Long, technical and pretty nerdy!
Cheers guys.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-The late Carl Sagan
That's good stuff, very detailed and thorough. And you leave plenty of room for error as well. Well done!!!
And welcome to 6speed.
Also, I havent gotten anyone else to do this just yet. Do interval times on the back straight from the first bridge using identical bigger white signs on the right side as segments, record the time it takes from the bridge to each sign and use the black electronic traffic sign as well as the last marker before the second overpass. Let me know your segment times. I'd like to know if you find what I did.
#1041
#1042
Also, I havent gotten anyone else to do this just yet. Do interval times on the back straight from the first bridge using identical bigger white signs on the right side as segments, record the time it takes from the bridge to each sign and use the black electronic traffic sign as well as the last marker before the second overpass. Let me know your segment times. I'd like to know if you find what I did.
#1043
#1044
Thanks for the warm welcome. Just lump me right in with all of the Porsche fanboys. I will gladly take the role of the hopelessly biased BMW fanboy.
I bet you barely read 1/3rd of what I wrote and understood even less.
If you do not understand the ability of basic science and mathematics to shred ridiculous claims of unethical marketeers you have some things to learn.
Perhaps you have heard the following funny saying about simulation. "No one believes the simulation except the person who conducted it. Everyone believes the test except the person who conducted it." Both ways of drawing conclusions can be fraught with difficulty and inaccuracy.
Let me end with a question. WHICH test do you believe for the 1/4 mi time and trap for "the" GT-R?
I bet you barely read 1/3rd of what I wrote and understood even less.
If you do not understand the ability of basic science and mathematics to shred ridiculous claims of unethical marketeers you have some things to learn.
Perhaps you have heard the following funny saying about simulation. "No one believes the simulation except the person who conducted it. Everyone believes the test except the person who conducted it." Both ways of drawing conclusions can be fraught with difficulty and inaccuracy.
Let me end with a question. WHICH test do you believe for the 1/4 mi time and trap for "the" GT-R?
#1045
porsher, you do realize that since the Nag's locked their tranny thread you are almost single-handedly adding hundreds of views to a thread that Nissan would love to make disappear?
#1046
Regardless of all the trouble with the GTR at least you know when you bring your $90k GTR in for service every month, you can go back to your exclusive neighborhood with the fine Nissan Sentra loaner. One guy was even luckier, his Nissan dealer was ALSO a Toyota dealer (how lucky can ONE guy get!!) so he got an even classier Camry!! The perks of getting a $90k Nissan just never stop.
90k GTR today=40K GTR in 6 months!
I feel sorry for all those fools that paid premiums!
At least their loaner gets decent gas mileage
#1047
The majority of these guys who bag or doubt the capabilities of the GTR HAS NEVER DRIVEN ONE BEFORE. So it's pointless to argue with them. It's like argueing with a pimple faced, testosterone filled virgin what sex feels like. He may of read about it, heard his friends talk about it, experimented with some toys, but if he aint done it - he aint got a clue what it feels like
How can you judge something based on theory? To make things worst, how can you judge something based on YOUR OWN THEORY'S AND IDEOLOGY while ignoring all the hard facts which states otherwise in front of you? That way of thinking is just bigoted.
How can you judge something based on theory? To make things worst, how can you judge something based on YOUR OWN THEORY'S AND IDEOLOGY while ignoring all the hard facts which states otherwise in front of you? That way of thinking is just bigoted.
#1048
New news for you guys. Aussie mag 'Wheels' tested the mighty Porsche 911 GT2 against the super car wannabe GTR with a racing driver. He had previous experience with the GT2 but no prior experience with the GTR.
Anyway, to cut the story short - after only his second lap in the GTR, he beat his best lap in the GT2 by 1.6 sec. Conditions were dry. Hmmm, another bribe from Nissan and a ringer again.
So let me do the basic maths here: GTR beats GT2 more times than not in various tests. GTR easier to drive for long periods than GT2, therefore GTR beats GT2 at the Nurb is not out of the question since Nurb is a pretty long track, therefore 7:29 is plausible under ideal conditions. Do i make sense guys?
Anyway, to cut the story short - after only his second lap in the GTR, he beat his best lap in the GT2 by 1.6 sec. Conditions were dry. Hmmm, another bribe from Nissan and a ringer again.
So let me do the basic maths here: GTR beats GT2 more times than not in various tests. GTR easier to drive for long periods than GT2, therefore GTR beats GT2 at the Nurb is not out of the question since Nurb is a pretty long track, therefore 7:29 is plausible under ideal conditions. Do i make sense guys?
#1049
If a challenging car is what you want, than why settle for a Porsche? Why not buy yourself a go-cart and spend $10k to mod it up and take that around the track at 200 miles an hour? And if you come out of that session alive, you'll be awarded the prize of the guy with the "biggest *****, and the littlest brain" honour.
It's called "advancement of the human race" and "advancement of technology" dude. We humans strive to make things easier and easier for us. Thinking the way you do, you might as well live like a caveman.
It's called "advancement of the human race" and "advancement of technology" dude. We humans strive to make things easier and easier for us. Thinking the way you do, you might as well live like a caveman.
Me caveman think Nissan used snakeoil tranny! If advancing the human race means sitting still due to tranny failures then Houston we have a problem!
#1050
If a challenging car is what you want, than why settle for a Porsche? Why not buy yourself a go-cart and spend $10k to mod it up and take that around the track at 200 miles an hour? And if you come out of that session alive, you'll be awarded the prize of the guy with the "biggest *****, and the littlest brain" honour.
It's called "advancement of the human race" and "advancement of technology" dude. We humans strive to make things easier and easier for us. Thinking the way you do, you might as well live like a caveman.
It's called "advancement of the human race" and "advancement of technology" dude. We humans strive to make things easier and easier for us. Thinking the way you do, you might as well live like a caveman.