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997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.

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  #1036  
Old 10-22-2008, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by porsherboy
You can do all the nerdy analysis you want but at the end of the day - nothing beats REAL testing.
It's like trying to analyze what ice cream tastes like based on the ingredients its made up of. You might get close but in no way will you be as precise as a REAL taste test.
Thanks for the warm welcome. Just lump me right in with all of the Porsche fanboys. I will gladly take the role of the hopelessly biased BMW fanboy.

I bet you barely read 1/3rd of what I wrote and understood even less.

If you do not understand the ability of basic science and mathematics to shred ridiculous claims of unethical marketeers you have some things to learn.

Perhaps you have heard the following funny saying about simulation. "No one believes the simulation except the person who conducted it. Everyone believes the test except the person who conducted it." Both ways of drawing conclusions can be fraught with difficulty and inaccuracy.

Let me end with a question. WHICH test do you believe for the 1/4 mi time and trap for "the" GT-R?
 
  #1037  
Old 10-23-2008, 12:17 AM
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Let's have some real world comparisons on a level playing field. Bring the GTR to the 2009 24 hours of Nurburgring. Bring more than one.
 
  #1038  
Old 10-23-2008, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by porsherboy
Oh great, we have another HC on our hands. Can i call you HC junior? Do yourself a favour - if you and your "scientifically brilliant" buddies think that you are so good, why don't you guys apply for a job at NASA instead of wasting your time on chat forums like this?

I can see the acclaim you guys will be getting already: This just in from NBC news. Group of internet forum "wonder kids" prooved that Nissan faked the 7:29 Nurb time. They calculated that based on the nationality, age, weight, skill and what the driver ate on the day along with the brand name, brand name, brand name, weather, track conditions, windspeed, etc that the GTR could only do a time of 7:54 +/- 0.5 sec.
This was all the more remarkable since all the extensive scientific calculations were done at home without ever needing to sit in the car or even drive it at the track.

Moral of the story? All automotive manufactures out there - hire these guys ASAP. No need to do extensive R&D anymore and waste money. Just whip up a car base on these guys calculations and have it manufactured straight away.
You are a real piece of work aren't you? Please don't begin with insults about my credibility, capability or background. I did not come here to bicker with folks like you. I simply came to share some work I did with the folks here who seem to think like I do. The proper approach for adults when they disagree it to debate the methods, inputs, assumptions and conclusions, not to start with the insults and silly little icons.

Just FYI I work for a company that supplies NASA with the software tools they need since their engineers and organization are not as capable nor do they have the expertise we do.

Why post it forums? It is fun, that simple, why do you? I enjoy applying science to the automotive arena. I would never use that skill working for a large automobile company though, just my preference.

Your ignorance about the level of science, engineering, simulation and software used to design cars these days from Hyundai's to Ferrari's is laughable. Most large companies (especially automotive) do nearly complete virtual product development in which their products are designed, drawn, documented, tested, and assembled by computer. As well all of the NASA folks you seem to idolize use the exact same kinds of tools.

Good day.
 
  #1039  
Old 10-23-2008, 12:51 AM
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Porsherboy definitely = Z07.


He tries multiple personality tricks every time he comes back but in the end it's the same ole Z07.
 
  #1040  
Old 10-23-2008, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by swamp2
Hi guys, my first post here (obviously). Briefly, I am a long term Porsche fan, but have yet to own one. One of my favorite P cars is the Carrera GT, heavenly to watch in motion and to hear as well. I currently have an E92 M3. I appreciate the performance per dollar ratio compared to Porsche with this car.

I have lurked around here a lot especially on this very interesting thread. I very much enjoyed the skepticism and analysis of the GT-R. I have posted quite a bit on this topic over at m3post.com. In my recent work I used CarTest physics based automobile performance software along with a lot of regression analysis to make some predictions about the power of the 7:29 GT-R "specimen" in particular. I'll "force" you to head over there rather than blow the "surprise" of my conclusion right away. This effort was definitely inspired by the work here of HC and petevb - thanks guys. Have a look here if interested. I know quite a few of you will be. Warning: Long, technical and pretty nerdy!

Cheers guys.



"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
-The late Carl Sagan

That's good stuff, very detailed and thorough. And you leave plenty of room for error as well. Well done!!!

And welcome to 6speed.





Also, I havent gotten anyone else to do this just yet. Do interval times on the back straight from the first bridge using identical bigger white signs on the right side as segments, record the time it takes from the bridge to each sign and use the black electronic traffic sign as well as the last marker before the second overpass. Let me know your segment times. I'd like to know if you find what I did.
 
  #1041  
Old 10-23-2008, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Prche951
It's massive weight was evident in the luimbering motion and how it wanted to plow straight. It was not taking the turns near as easily as the GT3.
You really need to drive one before making statements like that.
 
  #1042  
Old 10-23-2008, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy
Also, I havent gotten anyone else to do this just yet. Do interval times on the back straight from the first bridge using identical bigger white signs on the right side as segments, record the time it takes from the bridge to each sign and use the black electronic traffic sign as well as the last marker before the second overpass. Let me know your segment times. I'd like to know if you find what I did.
You really need to take a break from the amateur detective work.
 
  #1043  
Old 10-23-2008, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Trommel
You really need to take a break from the amateur detective work.
But it is lots of fun! This thread keeps going and going, just like the Energizer Bunny.
 
  #1044  
Old 10-23-2008, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by swamp2
Thanks for the warm welcome. Just lump me right in with all of the Porsche fanboys. I will gladly take the role of the hopelessly biased BMW fanboy.

I bet you barely read 1/3rd of what I wrote and understood even less.

If you do not understand the ability of basic science and mathematics to shred ridiculous claims of unethical marketeers you have some things to learn.

Perhaps you have heard the following funny saying about simulation. "No one believes the simulation except the person who conducted it. Everyone believes the test except the person who conducted it." Both ways of drawing conclusions can be fraught with difficulty and inaccuracy.

Let me end with a question. WHICH test do you believe for the 1/4 mi time and trap for "the" GT-R?
Dude, you are wasting your time. Everyone knows the only true scientific method is "RICER MATH." I might as well try to explain chaos theory to my dog while holding a biscuit in one hand.
 
  #1045  
Old 10-23-2008, 08:57 AM
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porsher, you do realize that since the Nag's locked their tranny thread you are almost single-handedly adding hundreds of views to a thread that Nissan would love to make disappear?
 
  #1046  
Old 10-23-2008, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by OldGuy
Regardless of all the trouble with the GTR at least you know when you bring your $90k GTR in for service every month, you can go back to your exclusive neighborhood with the fine Nissan Sentra loaner. One guy was even luckier, his Nissan dealer was ALSO a Toyota dealer (how lucky can ONE guy get!!) so he got an even classier Camry!! The perks of getting a $90k Nissan just never stop.
hehehehehehe I was waiting for someone to mention the loaner issue. When you sit back and think about it, most GTR owners will be spending as much if not more time in a Sentra then their prized GTR. I can't think of one person I know that owns a 997 that has had his car in for unscheduled maintenance.
90k GTR today=40K GTR in 6 months!
I feel sorry for all those fools that paid premiums!
At least their loaner gets decent gas mileage
 
  #1047  
Old 10-23-2008, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by porsherboy
The majority of these guys who bag or doubt the capabilities of the GTR HAS NEVER DRIVEN ONE BEFORE. So it's pointless to argue with them. It's like argueing with a pimple faced, testosterone filled virgin what sex feels like. He may of read about it, heard his friends talk about it, experimented with some toys, but if he aint done it - he aint got a clue what it feels like
How can you judge something based on theory? To make things worst, how can you judge something based on YOUR OWN THEORY'S AND IDEOLOGY while ignoring all the hard facts which states otherwise in front of you? That way of thinking is just bigoted.
I tend to call it fanboyism... "Any individual who is devoted to a single subject in an emotional or fanatical manner, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession" This is a p-car forum, and while I don't agree with the fanboyism abundant on this forum, I understand why it is the way that it is. These people own/love Porsche's, even ugly ones in dull orange and puke green etc. Nothing is better than the P-car, especially not something reasonably priced and made by Nissan. Their thinking is bigoted, I will agree to that, but we all have our vices. Personally, I would probably take the GTR over any P-car IN THE COMPARABLE PRICE RANGE. I think it's a feat that you have to almost double the MSRP of the GTR to find a P-car that can compete, and even still, it looses in most instances, but don't ever expect the P-car boys to admit that. Even if they did, they would find something else negative to say about the GTR. I think it's just the nature of the beast.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
 
  #1048  
Old 10-23-2008, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by porsherboy
New news for you guys. Aussie mag 'Wheels' tested the mighty Porsche 911 GT2 against the super car wannabe GTR with a racing driver. He had previous experience with the GT2 but no prior experience with the GTR.

Anyway, to cut the story short - after only his second lap in the GTR, he beat his best lap in the GT2 by 1.6 sec. Conditions were dry. Hmmm, another bribe from Nissan and a ringer again.

So let me do the basic maths here: GTR beats GT2 more times than not in various tests. GTR easier to drive for long periods than GT2, therefore GTR beats GT2 at the Nurb is not out of the question since Nurb is a pretty long track, therefore 7:29 is plausible under ideal conditions. Do i make sense guys?
I can't imagine why anyone with a ball sack would want something easier to drive, so I suggest all GTR drivers unite and wear Skorts!
 
  #1049  
Old 10-23-2008, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by porsherboy
If a challenging car is what you want, than why settle for a Porsche? Why not buy yourself a go-cart and spend $10k to mod it up and take that around the track at 200 miles an hour? And if you come out of that session alive, you'll be awarded the prize of the guy with the "biggest *****, and the littlest brain" honour.

It's called "advancement of the human race" and "advancement of technology" dude. We humans strive to make things easier and easier for us. Thinking the way you do, you might as well live like a caveman.
Me caveman like Porsche, me caveman eat meat!
Me caveman think Nissan used snakeoil tranny! If advancing the human race means sitting still due to tranny failures then Houston we have a problem!
 
  #1050  
Old 10-23-2008, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by porsherboy
If a challenging car is what you want, than why settle for a Porsche? Why not buy yourself a go-cart and spend $10k to mod it up and take that around the track at 200 miles an hour? And if you come out of that session alive, you'll be awarded the prize of the guy with the "biggest *****, and the littlest brain" honour.

It's called "advancement of the human race" and "advancement of technology" dude. We humans strive to make things easier and easier for us. Thinking the way you do, you might as well live like a caveman.
This is not a good analogy. What you are saying is, rather than take the time to learn to play chess, you'd rather let a computer program play against your buddy than you do it yourself. Computer intervention is fine for numb skulls on the highway, we want to learn how to handle a real sports car on a track.
 


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