997 TT beats GT-R at Ring. Nissan accused of cheating.
#106
10-01-2008, 02:48 AM
Heavy,
You're correct, I miss-typed a number. Not 6:44.5 for the GTR under the first bridge, but 6:45.5. That puts the GTR's average speed 3 mph slower than the ZR1, which is certainly close enough to be suspicious...
I'm going to plug it into the sim to see what the power numbers look like, but it's going to take a while (tomorrow). It would be really nice to know what the headwind was. I'll probably assume they hit the first bridge at the same speed, which might be a stretch...
The aero numbers I used look really close even if the ZR1 does redline out. Even using the Z06's .31 /2.08 m^2 drag the ZR1 would find only ~3 mph top speed if correctly geared. But I'll account for that too...
Did I read somewhere that there were max speeds at the end of the straight taken? Those would be very telling...
You're correct, I miss-typed a number. Not 6:44.5 for the GTR under the first bridge, but 6:45.5. That puts the GTR's average speed 3 mph slower than the ZR1, which is certainly close enough to be suspicious...
I'm going to plug it into the sim to see what the power numbers look like, but it's going to take a while (tomorrow). It would be really nice to know what the headwind was. I'll probably assume they hit the first bridge at the same speed, which might be a stretch...
The aero numbers I used look really close even if the ZR1 does redline out. Even using the Z06's .31 /2.08 m^2 drag the ZR1 would find only ~3 mph top speed if correctly geared. But I'll account for that too...
Did I read somewhere that there were max speeds at the end of the straight taken? Those would be very telling...
BTW, I seriously doubt the claims of 10% driveline loss for the nissan. Gears are gears, and the friction losses are dictated by pitch, pressure angle, etc. So a 490 whp GTR would probably be a ~580-600 crank hp car. Unless there was a headwind... If I had to guess I'd say it was a combo of a rather "strong" nissan and a headwind for the ZR1... I didn't run the zonda numbers, but it certainly got to the 2nd bridge well faster than the vette.
#107
10-01-2008, 03:02 AM
Fanboys:
Why has no one been able to explain why the GT-R ran only 1 second slower from ~100-~180 than a Zonda, .4 slower than a ZR-1 and faster than a Z06 on the back straight at the ring?????? All of which are 5-10 seconds faster from that interval??
You guys continue to bash, but even you guys cant think of a legit excuse. The funny thing is that the car that ran 7:38 had the identical time on that back straight, so even the first one was a ringer. Fact of the matter is that that was not a showroom GT-R, and even the one that Horst lapped to 7:50 was one of the same ringers, and he didnt think the mule had a 7:38 in it.
Why has no one been able to explain why the GT-R ran only 1 second slower from ~100-~180 than a Zonda, .4 slower than a ZR-1 and faster than a Z06 on the back straight at the ring?????? All of which are 5-10 seconds faster from that interval??
You guys continue to bash, but even you guys cant think of a legit excuse. The funny thing is that the car that ran 7:38 had the identical time on that back straight, so even the first one was a ringer. Fact of the matter is that that was not a showroom GT-R, and even the one that Horst lapped to 7:50 was one of the same ringers, and he didnt think the mule had a 7:38 in it.
Top speed on the back straight, total laptime:
997 GT2 - 293 km/h, 7:33
997TT - 282 km/h, 7:54 (MPSCs)
Zonda F - 281 km/h, 7:33
997 GT3 - 272 km/h, 7:48
C6 Z06 - 270 km/h, 7:49
997TT faster than the Zonda F. 997 GT3 faster than the C6 Z06! Seems like power-to-weight ratio isn't everything.
And how do you explain the Porsche test engineer's supposed 7:38 time on the 997TT w/ MPSCs vis a vis HvS' Supertest time of 7:54 on a completely clear lap? Not to mention the 997 GT2's time of 7:33, also on MPSCs.
And what about HvS' shakedown test of a pre-production GT-R yielding 7:50 on a partially wet track?
#108
10-01-2008, 04:16 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 
Heavy, Stop bull****ting.
The Z06's final Supertest lap time result at full tap is a 7:49. This "warm up" bull**** and "missed shifts" was fabricated entirely by you.
Here is a video of the lap, time it yourself and watch the shifts:
C6 Z06 Supertest Lap
and here is Sportauto's list of Supertest lap times.
scroll to page 3, Corvette Z06 tested 06/2007.
As for Millen's involvement in R&T's test. Whether or not the 911 or Z06 was there the following statement can be made:
A GT-R that is capable of producing an 11.8 quarter mile can also produce a 1:56.9 lap of BW13 on stock production tires.
Can the same statement be made of the 911t or Z06? No. Period.
The Z06's final Supertest lap time result at full tap is a 7:49. This "warm up" bull**** and "missed shifts" was fabricated entirely by you.
Here is a video of the lap, time it yourself and watch the shifts:
C6 Z06 Supertest Lap
and here is Sportauto's list of Supertest lap times.
scroll to page 3, Corvette Z06 tested 06/2007.
As for Millen's involvement in R&T's test. Whether or not the 911 or Z06 was there the following statement can be made:
A GT-R that is capable of producing an 11.8 quarter mile can also produce a 1:56.9 lap of BW13 on stock production tires.
Can the same statement be made of the 911t or Z06? No. Period.
Oh, well even better. That same video used to say Tiergarten, but oh well, fast forward to about 4:25 and watch till 4:50, he misses a shift about 4:34 and watch the seconds go by before he's able to get it back into gear. Nearly 3 seconds of coasting and fumbling with the gear. Anyone can go and look at the vid, so before you try to accuse me of lying, go back and look at it in detail, and try me again. Let the jury decide if I made that up.......
How would we know what the 911 TT and Z06 could do until we get a test driver to drive them and not be sandbagging. Millen mashed the other guy who drove the GT-R there, but lost to not one but TWO mag editors in the Z06? So how is that a fair comparison. Test Driver at full tilt vs mag editors and sandbagging test driver. Like I said, it doesnt take rocket science to put two and two together. If I can beat a guy 5 seconds in one car, I wont likely be slower in another car, dont ya think???? Use your head boy.
Last edited by heavychevy; 10-01-2008 at 06:03 AM.
#109
10-01-2008, 05:05 AM
chrisn-
Do not believe for a minute that big corporations do not lie about their products - it is done all the time. I used to VP of one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies, based inn Europe.
They routinely forged data in clinical trials about their drugs - the joke in the industry was that every consumer should multiply every "side effect" by 7, and you would get the real incidence. Of course, under this administration the FDA is supported by drug companies.
Sorry if this is off-topic, but buyer beware, especially with new pharmaceuticals. I quit that company over this issue.
If they do it with pharmaceuticals, don't you think the car companies would do this?
-Gerry
07 GT3RS
Do not believe for a minute that big corporations do not lie about their products - it is done all the time. I used to VP of one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies, based inn Europe.
They routinely forged data in clinical trials about their drugs - the joke in the industry was that every consumer should multiply every "side effect" by 7, and you would get the real incidence. Of course, under this administration the FDA is supported by drug companies.
Sorry if this is off-topic, but buyer beware, especially with new pharmaceuticals. I quit that company over this issue.
If they do it with pharmaceuticals, don't you think the car companies would do this?
-Gerry
07 GT3RS
#110
10-01-2008, 05:46 AM
That's a freebie HC
Oh, well even better. That same video used to say Tiergarten, but oh well, fast forward to about 7:25 and watch till 7:50, he misses a shift about 7:34 and watch the seconds go by before he's able to get it back into gear. Nearly 3 seconds of coasting and fumbling with the gear. Anyone can go and look at the vid, so before you try to accuse me of lying, go back and look at it in detail, and try me again. Let the jury decide if I made that up.......
How would we know what the 911 TT and Z06 could do until we get a test driver to drive them and not be sandbagging. Millen mashed the other guy who drove the GT-R there, but lost to not one but TWO mag editors in the Z06? So how is that a fair comparison. Test Driver at full tilt vs mag editors and sandbagging test driver. Like I said, it doesnt take rocket science to put two and two together. If I can beat a guy 5 seconds in one car, I wont likely be slower in another car, dont ya think???? Use your head boy.
How would we know what the 911 TT and Z06 could do until we get a test driver to drive them and not be sandbagging. Millen mashed the other guy who drove the GT-R there, but lost to not one but TWO mag editors in the Z06? So how is that a fair comparison. Test Driver at full tilt vs mag editors and sandbagging test driver. Like I said, it doesnt take rocket science to put two and two together. If I can beat a guy 5 seconds in one car, I wont likely be slower in another car, dont ya think???? Use your head boy.
Missed shift at 7:34 you say? Into which gear? 6th?
That would be the overdrive 6th, right? Hmm I wonder
why he would do that given the Z06 achieves it's top speed
in 5th?
I invite the jury to watch the video and watch the gear shifts:
3rd to 4th : 7:08
4th to 5th : 7:18
Chevy's mystery gear change : 7:34 ?????
You'll find that Chevy's mystery gear change is actually HVS
backing off the gas to safely make the left hand kink
at the end of the straight without crashing the Z06.
How do i know he's in 5th before the kink?
The Z06's recorded top speed at Dottinger Hohe during this lap was 270km/h (168mph).
Dottinger Hohe is the start of the left hand kink. Click the map in the top right of this page.
The Z06's max speed in 4th is 157mph so he had to be in 5th at that point. Hence
there was no need for a gear change.
Thanks, HC. You need to do better.
Last edited by gp900bj; 10-01-2008 at 06:05 AM.
#111
10-01-2008, 06:00 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 What about these numbers (all from Sport Auto Supertests)? How do you explain these?
Top speed on the back straight, total laptime:
997 GT2 - 293 km/h, 7:33
997TT - 282 km/h, 7:54 (MPSCs)
Zonda F - 281 km/h, 7:33
997 GT3 - 272 km/h, 7:48
C6 Z06 - 270 km/h, 7:49
997TT faster than the Zonda F. 997 GT3 faster than the C6 Z06! Seems like power-to-weight ratio isn't everything.
And how do you explain the Porsche test engineer's supposed 7:38 time on the 997TT w/ MPSCs vis a vis HvS' Supertest time of 7:54 on a completely clear lap? Not to mention the 997 GT2's time of 7:33, also on MPSCs.
And what about HvS' shakedown test of a pre-production GT-R yielding 7:50 on a partially wet track?
Top speed on the back straight, total laptime:
997 GT2 - 293 km/h, 7:33
997TT - 282 km/h, 7:54 (MPSCs)
Zonda F - 281 km/h, 7:33
997 GT3 - 272 km/h, 7:48
C6 Z06 - 270 km/h, 7:49
997TT faster than the Zonda F. 997 GT3 faster than the C6 Z06! Seems like power-to-weight ratio isn't everything.
And how do you explain the Porsche test engineer's supposed 7:38 time on the 997TT w/ MPSCs vis a vis HvS' Supertest time of 7:54 on a completely clear lap? Not to mention the 997 GT2's time of 7:33, also on MPSCs.
And what about HvS' shakedown test of a pre-production GT-R yielding 7:50 on a partially wet track?
This could be a number of things. The TT, GT2 and GT3 were al of MPSC, that spot on the track is right before the bridge, Horst lifts pretty early there in the Z06, and lost quite a bit of speed before turning, in studying data, the difference in lift and brake points can make a huge difference in speed at a certain point on the track. I can only assume that he wasnt very confident in the tires which is a big deal at 170 mph.
Go back and look at the ZR-1's video, the MPH doesnt drop around that turn, he doesnt lift, but actually gains speed as he apexes which means he's still on it, Horst clearly lifts off the throttle competely a good ways prior to the turn, he lost a lot of mph on that hill with that early lift, but that has a lot to do with driver confidence. Jim Mero was still gaining speed as he went ove the hill (again, only on PS2's with a light rear ended corvette). It's likely horst had the confidence to go full throttle with the Porsches because of the rear end grip.
Acceleration data is much more pertinant that a spot right before a turn that can mean a myriad of things. You can pick any of the signs on that back straight and the GT-R goes tit for tat with the ZR-1 and Zonda, so it's picking up speed at the same rate, that's the most pertinent data.
Look at the white signs on the side of the road. If you do the split times you'll find this from the bridge to the white signs on the right side of the road and the last black sign on the right, then the other bridge.
ZR-1/GT-R/Zonda
2.1/2.3/2.1
6.7/7.1/6.6
9.4/9.1/9.2 ???? (What the???)
11.9/11.8/11.8 ????? (WTH?)
17.3/17.4/NA (out of car shot)
23.0/23.4/22.5
These may be a couple tenths off, but they arent that far, it shows the three cars accelerating at the same pace.
What's odd is that the GT-R hits some sort of speed burst to the third sign and gets there before the other two from behind. Someone else please comfirm and do the split times to the white signs. They are harder to see in the GT-R, but use the bigger white signs that look the same.
Something is fishy, because it hit some sort of warp speed to get ahead of both from behind.
Last edited by heavychevy; 10-01-2008 at 06:15 AM.
#112
10-01-2008, 06:01 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 Haha, Chevy you make my work so easy.
Missed shift at 7:34 you say? Into which gear? 6th?
That would be the overdrive 6th, right? Hmm I wonder
why he would do that given the Z06 achieves it's top speed
in 5th?
I invite the jury to watch the video and watch the gear shifts:
3rd to 4th : 7:08
4th to 5th : 7:18
Chevy's mystery gear change : 7:34 ?????
You'll find that Chevy's mystery gear change is actually HVS
backing off the gas to safely make the left hand kink
at the end of the straight without crashing the Z06.
Thanks, HC. You need to do better.
Missed shift at 7:34 you say? Into which gear? 6th?
That would be the overdrive 6th, right? Hmm I wonder
why he would do that given the Z06 achieves it's top speed
in 5th?
I invite the jury to watch the video and watch the gear shifts:
3rd to 4th : 7:08
4th to 5th : 7:18
Chevy's mystery gear change : 7:34 ?????
You'll find that Chevy's mystery gear change is actually HVS
backing off the gas to safely make the left hand kink
at the end of the straight without crashing the Z06.
Thanks, HC. You need to do better.
Try it again.
#113
10-01-2008, 06:42 AM
Porsche won't accuse Chevy and Dodge because they know those cars are capable of such performance. It was obvious from the start that something was rotten when a 4000 pound tub with "480" horsepower runs a 7:29. Nissan said form the get go that they were gunning for Porsche, and when Porsche smells a rat, they have every right to call them out. Porsche knows they will have to back this up. I can't wait to see what happens next.
#114
10-01-2008, 06:48 AM
Porsche won't accuse Chevy and Dodge because they know those cars are capable of such performance. It was obvious from the start that something was rotten when a 4000 pound tub with "480" horsepower runs a 7:29. Nissan said form the get go that they were gunning for Porsche, and when Porsche smells a rat, they have every right to call them out. Porsche knows they will have to back this up. I can't wait to see what happens next.
#115
10-01-2008, 07:12 AM
This could be a number of things. The TT, GT2 and GT3 were al of MPSC, that spot on the track is right before the bridge, Horst lifts pretty early there in the Z06, and lost quite a bit of speed before turning, in studying data, the difference in lift and brake points can make a huge difference in speed at a certain point on the track. I can only assume that he wasnt very confident in the tires which is a big deal at 170 mph.
Go back and look at the ZR-1's video, the MPH doesnt drop around that turn, he doesnt lift, but actually gains speed as he apexes which means he's still on it, Horst clearly lifts off the throttle competely a good ways prior to the turn, he lost a lot of mph on that hill with that early lift, but that has a lot to do with driver confidence. Jim Mero was still gaining speed as he went ove the hill (again, only on PS2's with a light rear ended corvette). It's likely horst had the confidence to go full throttle with the Porsches because of the rear end grip.
Acceleration data is much more pertinant that a spot right before a turn that can mean a myriad of things. You can pick any of the signs on that back straight and the GT-R goes tit for tat with the ZR-1 and Zonda, so it's picking up speed at the same rate, that's the most pertinent data.
Look at the white signs on the side of the road. If you do the split times you'll find this from the bridge to the white signs on the right side of the road and the last black sign on the right, then the other bridge.
ZR-1/GT-R/Zonda
2.1/2.3/2.1
6.7/7.1/6.6
9.4/9.1/9.2 ???? (What the???)
11.9/11.8/11.8 ????? (WTH?)
17.3/17.4/NA (out of car shot)
23.0/23.4/22.5
These may be a couple tenths off, but they arent that far, it shows the three cars accelerating at the same pace.
What's odd is that the GT-R hits some sort of speed burst to the third sign and gets there before the other two from behind. Someone else please comfirm and do the split times to the white signs. They are harder to see in the GT-R, but use the bigger white signs that look the same.
Something is fishy, because it hit some sort of warp speed to get ahead of both from behind.
Go back and look at the ZR-1's video, the MPH doesnt drop around that turn, he doesnt lift, but actually gains speed as he apexes which means he's still on it, Horst clearly lifts off the throttle competely a good ways prior to the turn, he lost a lot of mph on that hill with that early lift, but that has a lot to do with driver confidence. Jim Mero was still gaining speed as he went ove the hill (again, only on PS2's with a light rear ended corvette). It's likely horst had the confidence to go full throttle with the Porsches because of the rear end grip.
Acceleration data is much more pertinant that a spot right before a turn that can mean a myriad of things. You can pick any of the signs on that back straight and the GT-R goes tit for tat with the ZR-1 and Zonda, so it's picking up speed at the same rate, that's the most pertinent data.
Look at the white signs on the side of the road. If you do the split times you'll find this from the bridge to the white signs on the right side of the road and the last black sign on the right, then the other bridge.
ZR-1/GT-R/Zonda
2.1/2.3/2.1
6.7/7.1/6.6
9.4/9.1/9.2 ???? (What the???)
11.9/11.8/11.8 ????? (WTH?)
17.3/17.4/NA (out of car shot)
23.0/23.4/22.5
These may be a couple tenths off, but they arent that far, it shows the three cars accelerating at the same pace.
What's odd is that the GT-R hits some sort of speed burst to the third sign and gets there before the other two from behind. Someone else please comfirm and do the split times to the white signs. They are harder to see in the GT-R, but use the bigger white signs that look the same.
Something is fishy, because it hit some sort of warp speed to get ahead of both from behind.
#116
10-01-2008, 08:12 AM
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ga
Posts: 8,934
Rep Power: 551 Whats so hard to belive? wasnt it stated many many times that GTR brakes late and exits out of corners much much earlier, when I bet Zr1 and ZOnda need to take it very easy on the throtle not to spin ECT? Whats so hard to belive? And you completely ignore my posts! Wtf.... ANd stop making up stuff too.
You cant take a statement (which you quoted out of context by the way) and banket it it every car on the planet. Man what are you thinking. The ZR-1 was at 107 mph exiting the last corner before the straight. I've had a 600 whp corvette and I assure you at those speeds it doesnt need to be easy on the throttle.
YOU STOP MAKING STUFF UP!! Come with something concrete, something with substance and stop coming up with loose misquoted jibberish. My statements have educated observations behind them which make sense to anyone who knows what's going on.
#117
10-01-2008, 09:55 AM
This could be a number of things. The TT, GT2 and GT3 were al of MPSC, that spot on the track is right before the bridge, Horst lifts pretty early there in the Z06, and lost quite a bit of speed before turning, in studying data, the difference in lift and brake points can make a huge difference in speed at a certain point on the track. I can only assume that he wasnt very confident in the tires which is a big deal at 170 mph.
Go back and look at the ZR-1's video, the MPH doesnt drop around that turn, he doesnt lift, but actually gains speed as he apexes which means he's still on it, Horst clearly lifts off the throttle competely a good ways prior to the turn, he lost a lot of mph on that hill with that early lift, but that has a lot to do with driver confidence. Jim Mero was still gaining speed as he went ove the hill (again, only on PS2's with a light rear ended corvette). It's likely horst had the confidence to go full throttle with the Porsches because of the rear end grip.
Go back and look at the ZR-1's video, the MPH doesnt drop around that turn, he doesnt lift, but actually gains speed as he apexes which means he's still on it, Horst clearly lifts off the throttle competely a good ways prior to the turn, he lost a lot of mph on that hill with that early lift, but that has a lot to do with driver confidence. Jim Mero was still gaining speed as he went ove the hill (again, only on PS2's with a light rear ended corvette). It's likely horst had the confidence to go full throttle with the Porsches because of the rear end grip.
The back straight is very bumpy and uneven. It doesn't matter how much power a car has if it's bouncing all over the place. Power without stability is useless because you're sure to lose grip, and losing grip = slower results.
And what about factors like AWD/RWD advantages/disadvantages, downforce, coefficient of drag, etc.? The GT-R's got the advantage of AWD, has shown that it's very stable when cornering, and is very slippery as far as cd is concern. Last I heard, the ZR1 has a relatively high cd and nearly no downforce at high (280+ km/h) speeds.
And let me ask you this: do you really believe that a Porsche test engineer can pilot a bone-stock 997TT (even one on MPSCs) around the 'Ring in 7:38? Kinda fishy when HvS can only manage a time of 7:54 on a closed track, and we all know how familiar he is with the 911 platform.
And again, what about HvS' 7:50 shakedown time for the GT-R on a partially wet track? That's already 4 seconds faster than the 7:54 supposedly achieved by that hotshoe of a Porsche test engineer.
#118
10-01-2008, 10:59 AM
What more to argue affter this most critical piece of information, from the GT-R's chief engineer:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../71017001/1065 <STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>Quote: But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58.<O></O>
Could everyone please repeat after me and stop all arguments
: GT-R is fast, but not as fast as Nissan has claimed, not 7:29, not even 7:38. Most likely around 7:44 to 7:58. Nissan's own chief engineer said this.
I have nothing against Nissan, and in fact companies are known to "optimize" their cars for better ring times, but to claim 20 seconds from the truth is to cross the line into cheating. It's a shameful act on Nissan's part; they should have known someone is going to expose them.
That such a heavy (near 4000 lbs!) and ugly car, with specific warranty policy prohibiting racing (!), from an average car company, is now listed near the top of the famed Nurburgring's time list is sad indeed. Unfortunately it will never go away and will remain a permanent blemish that I'll have to put up with every time I look at this list. http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073 I would have had no problem whatsoever if they acknowledged something was done to the stock car. The problem is they didn't, and now it remains a black mark for all to see -- a near 4000 lbs, 500 hp car near the top of the famed Ring list!
<STYLE>!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../71017001/1065 <STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>Quote: But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58.<O></O>
Could everyone please repeat after me and stop all arguments
: GT-R is fast, but not as fast as Nissan has claimed, not 7:29, not even 7:38. Most likely around 7:44 to 7:58. Nissan's own chief engineer said this.I have nothing against Nissan, and in fact companies are known to "optimize" their cars for better ring times, but to claim 20 seconds from the truth is to cross the line into cheating. It's a shameful act on Nissan's part; they should have known someone is going to expose them.
That such a heavy (near 4000 lbs!) and ugly car, with specific warranty policy prohibiting racing (!), from an average car company, is now listed near the top of the famed Nurburgring's time list is sad indeed. Unfortunately it will never go away and will remain a permanent blemish that I'll have to put up with every time I look at this list. http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073 I would have had no problem whatsoever if they acknowledged something was done to the stock car. The problem is they didn't, and now it remains a black mark for all to see -- a near 4000 lbs, 500 hp car near the top of the famed Ring list!
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Last edited by cannga; 10-01-2008 at 11:13 AM.
#119
10-01-2008, 11:12 AM
What more to argue affter this most critical piece of information, from the GT-R's chief engineer:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../71017001/1065 <STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>Quote: But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58.<O></O>
Could everyone please repeat after me and stop all arguments: GT-R is fast, but not as fast as Nissan has claimed, not 7:29, not even 7:38. Most likely around 7:44 to 7:58. Nissan's own chief engineer said this.
I have nothing against Nissan, and in fact companies are known to "optimize" their cars for better ring times, but to claim 20 seconds from the truth is to cross the line into cheating. It's a shameful act on Nissan's part; they should have known someone is going to expose them.
That such a heavy (near 4000 lbs!) and ugly car, with specific warranty policy prohibiting racing (!), from an average car company, is now listed near the top of the famed Nurburgring's time list is sad indeed. Unfortunately it will never go away and will remain a permanent blemish that I'll have to put up with every time I look at this list. http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073 I would have had no problem whatsoever if they acknowledge something was done to the stock car. The problem is they didn't, and now it remains a black mark for all to see -- a near 4000 lbs, 500 hp car near the top of the famed Ring list!
<STYLE>!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../71017001/1065 <STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE><LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CCANPHA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>Quote: But Mizuno suggested the GT-R could get anywhere from 7:44 on up, with most laps coming in between 7:55 and 7:58.<O></O>
Could everyone please repeat after me and stop all arguments
: GT-R is fast, but not as fast as Nissan has claimed, not 7:29, not even 7:38. Most likely around 7:44 to 7:58. Nissan's own chief engineer said this.I have nothing against Nissan, and in fact companies are known to "optimize" their cars for better ring times, but to claim 20 seconds from the truth is to cross the line into cheating. It's a shameful act on Nissan's part; they should have known someone is going to expose them.
That such a heavy (near 4000 lbs!) and ugly car, with specific warranty policy prohibiting racing (!), from an average car company, is now listed near the top of the famed Nurburgring's time list is sad indeed. Unfortunately it will never go away and will remain a permanent blemish that I'll have to put up with every time I look at this list. http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=0&tID=10073 I would have had no problem whatsoever if they acknowledge something was done to the stock car. The problem is they didn't, and now it remains a black mark for all to see -- a near 4000 lbs, 500 hp car near the top of the famed Ring list!
<STYLE>!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>
yes but then there's ANOTHER article or video when they did 7:38, they saw that the car would be even more faster with some tweaks and thats when they did 7:29 with stiffering the suspension and some other mods. Its hard for human brain to accept.
#120
10-01-2008, 11:19 AM
I can fix this. Someone send me keys to their respective GT-R, 997TT, and GT2 (won't be using mine). I will take them to track and get back with everyone. I need your insurance cards with the keys.