Drivers Republic GT2 v GTR around the Nurburgring
#17
11-22-2008, 10:05 AM
would i take it over my GT3? No.
given my meager driving skills, would I be faster in the GTR than in any 997 Porsche i've tried on real world roads? Yes.
oh, and Chris Harris achieved a sub-8 minute time on the Nurburgring in both cars.
so much for (all) auto journalists not being able to drive for crap then...
#19
11-22-2008, 10:18 AM
Props for Harris being able to pull of those times on a damp track. I now put him at the top of my list of credible journalists when reading. I really wished they brought a 911tt instead of the GT2. It's more of a realistic car to buy and own than the GT2 for me at least. We all know the GT2 is going to be faster everywhere as well it should be for it's price and weight. I got hammered by troll hunters for saying this before but it sucks that the TT is no longer being included in these comparos. Anyways, I noticed that they didn't have all settings put to R on the GTR. The owner may have wanted to keep his car's warranty intact 
or maybe it's faster with specific settings? Major props to DR for putting this together. Mother nature must have been trolling the forums and threw in the rain to keep things going.
or maybe it's faster with specific settings? Major props to DR for putting this together. Mother nature must have been trolling the forums and threw in the rain to keep things going.
#20
11-22-2008, 10:25 AM
GT2 def faster. Too bad track was wet-- that increases the variability of laps a lot.
Also, GT-R had the slower Potenzas. All other tests used the Dunlaps (which are standard equipment on the Base car). Dunlaps supposed to be 5 secs faster. so 6.9 (DR's time delta) - 5 (for Dunlaps) = < 2 sec difference around the 'Ring. Statistically even. Only counter argument is that it was wet-- so again too much variability.
I sure hope the GT2 is faster, but the DR test (in my mind) still does not debunk the claim that GT-R faster than stock 997TT around the Ring.
I hope Nissan gets out there in the dry with a verified stock car and tries to repeat the 7:29.
Also, GT-R had the slower Potenzas. All other tests used the Dunlaps (which are standard equipment on the Base car). Dunlaps supposed to be 5 secs faster. so 6.9 (DR's time delta) - 5 (for Dunlaps) = < 2 sec difference around the 'Ring. Statistically even. Only counter argument is that it was wet-- so again too much variability.
I sure hope the GT2 is faster, but the DR test (in my mind) still does not debunk the claim that GT-R faster than stock 997TT around the Ring.
I hope Nissan gets out there in the dry with a verified stock car and tries to repeat the 7:29.
#21
11-22-2008, 10:59 AM
Props for Harris being able to pull of those times on a damp track. I now put him at the top of my list of credible journalists when reading. I really wished they brought a 911tt instead of the GT2. It's more of a realistic car to buy and own than the GT2 for me at least. We all know the GT2 is going to be faster everywhere as well it should be for it's price and weight. I got hammered by troll hunters for saying this before but it sucks that the TT is no longer being included in these comparos. Anyways, I noticed that they didn't have all settings put to R on the GTR. The owner may have wanted to keep his car's warranty intact or maybe it's faster with specific settings? Major props to DR for putting this together. Mother nature must have been trolling the forums and threw in the rain to keep things going.
or maybe it's faster with specific settings? Major props to DR for putting this together. Mother nature must have been trolling the forums and threw in the rain to keep things going. Actually in the wet, you DONT want aggressive suspension settings, it makes the car harder to handle. That's why in wet weather race teams soften suspensions and lossen sway bars to keep from snapping into oversteer in the wet.
And judging by the vids, the GT-R looked like a handful with whatever setting they had.
I was thinking the same thing though, would have been nice to see a 997 TT there are I am absolutely positive that the Supertest for it was not representative of what it can do. 7:54 is pathetic and it's a bit suspicious that Best Motoring didnt finish recording the lap.
#23
11-22-2008, 12:36 PM
<o></o>
GT2 - 7:49<o></o>
GTR - 7:55.9<o></o>
<o></o>
NISSAN GTR
“could the Nissan really go 27-seconds faster? I just don’t know…but I just don’t see where another 27-seconds comes from with the car I drove. I felt that I came much closer to extracting the maximum performance of the Nissan on this single-flying-lap challenge than I did the Porsche.
<o></o>
<o>
GT2 - 7:49<o></o>
GTR - 7:55.9<o></o>
<o></o>
NISSAN GTR
“could the Nissan really go 27-seconds faster? I just don’t know…but I just don’t see where another 27-seconds comes from with the car I drove. I felt that I came much closer to extracting the maximum performance of the Nissan on this single-flying-lap challenge than I did the Porsche.
<o></o>
<o>
Here are the unedited quotes:
#24
11-22-2008, 01:16 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 560
Rep Power: 40 
#25
11-22-2008, 01:32 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 560
Rep Power: 40 So where was this superior handling in that GT2 v GTR tests? easier yes but superior NO!!!
#26
11-22-2008, 01:35 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 560
Rep Power: 40 I wonder how fast the V-Spec is now that Nissan will delete the LC feature in the car and a couple of the other go faster goodies. It wouldnt surprise me if Nissan changes their current weak a$$ transmission with a proper manual.
#27
11-23-2008, 04:12 AM
Do you even have a driving license?
#29
11-23-2008, 07:17 AM
we're all guilty of it. You're here, I'm there, he's somewhere else too. As the 911 turbo owners here have been pestered by pubescent GTR fans for over a year now - even long before the GTR was sold here (still no UK spec GTR's eh?) - do you expect folks here to take the higher road? This is the internet! Grab a chair and enjoy the immolation of Nissan's reputation.
#30
11-23-2008, 12:17 PM
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 560
Rep Power: 40
Clear as day folks........................WR, HVS and now Chris Harris all think that its impossible for the GTR to reach the Nissan claimed 7:29 time. All of them now think that a good driver and perfect conditions would only net a 7:40's.
FROM SteveDR
Hi Folks, let me try and answer any questions that you have and where necessary I will invite Chris Harris to provide any further details on the laps.
Just to set the context for this test, we are big fans of both cars and have run features on them this year as well as setting laps around our home Silverstone GP circuit. Lapping Silverstone we found that both would achieve near identical times of 2 min 10 seconds and this led us to conclude that the GT-R was indeed as quick as the fastest production Porsche, but we had a nagging doubt in the backs of our minds especially given the very public spat between Nissan and Porsche, so we wanted to check the story out ourselves - first hand.
We didn't expect to match each maker's claims especially given the time of year, but what we hoped to learn (and did) was 'how' each car behaved over this 14 mile stretch of infamous tarmac and thereby be in a better position to assess the feasibility of each claimed time.
We visited the 'ring on Monday and Tuesday of last week (10th/11th Nov) and unfortunately it was lashing it down with rain. We also brought along Renault's Megane R26.R which has claimed the fastest production hatchback record around the 'ring (more of that next week), so we had a lot to accomplish in very little time. We were very kindly provided an hour or so on the track by organisers RMA, and ran both cars for a total of three laps recording a single fastest flying laptime.
Both cars were well run in; we used the GT2 several times earlier in the year and ran a seperate feature on it, we also drove this same GT-R in our feature comparing it against 997.2 PDK, R8 and Aston V8. So we knew the history of each car, that they were standard and did not favour either manufacturer. It's worth making clear that Porsche did not know about our intended use for the GT2 when we borrowed it - we've borrowed their GT2 5 or 6 times already this year, so it was no big deal.
As we assembled this feature and concluded on the times there were several aspects that struck us; firstly the GT2 found much more traction that we would expect on its cup+ tyres and therefore there was little or no traction advantage conferred by the GT-R's 4wd.
The GT-R was quicker into corners, mostly because of its stability under braking and the confidence this gave the driver. Both cars were near enough identical in terms of apex speeds, so were a match through most corners although the Nissan was on the power earlier in some slower corners.
But the biggest difference was how much faster the GT2 was than the GT-R in terms of power - there was a massive difference. 17mph in the GT2's favour felt even faster and this is where much of the GT2's advantage over the GT-R was attributed.
Chris felt that he got pretty close to the GT-R's potential around the lap, albeit the Dunlop tyres would have provided an extra 5 seconds of pace and a properly dry circuit with warmer temperatures would have helped both cars, so we guess that 7:45 or less would definitely be within the GT-R's reach.
The GT2 was more scary to drive at those speeds with a damp track and good-sense got the better of Chris in being able to eek out the last 10-15 seconds, but he's pretty confident that a 7:30 would be within Walter's grasp. So, Chris did not feel that he got as close to the GT2's limits as he did in the GT-R. And clearly if we'd had the time and money to run the cars all-day, reviewing the telemetry and spotting where extra time could be gained then a faster lap time would obviously have been possible.
So, did Suzuki really do 7:29? Well, he's certainly an awesome driver. We recorded a video with Suzuki back in May, which further shows his ability TV, videos, motorsport events, driving techniques | DR TV | DRIVERS REPUBLIC he certainly has a kamikaze do-or-die approach to driving and that's exactly what you need to set a fast time around the 'ring, so we don't doubt that on a better day he could have set a faster time (probably faster than 7:45), but the main difference between GT2 and GT-R was down to engine power and the fact that the GT-R got anywhere close to the GT2 was a great result.
If it wasn't for the whole debate around Nissan's claimed lap time I suspect everyone would now be patting Nissan on the back, but setting the whole PR issue aside for a moment it really is a tremendous achievement for a 1740kg car to get anywhere near to the times it has set. But the GT2, for the moment, is another step up in terms of performance.
Hi Folks, let me try and answer any questions that you have and where necessary I will invite Chris Harris to provide any further details on the laps.
Just to set the context for this test, we are big fans of both cars and have run features on them this year as well as setting laps around our home Silverstone GP circuit. Lapping Silverstone we found that both would achieve near identical times of 2 min 10 seconds and this led us to conclude that the GT-R was indeed as quick as the fastest production Porsche, but we had a nagging doubt in the backs of our minds especially given the very public spat between Nissan and Porsche, so we wanted to check the story out ourselves - first hand.
We didn't expect to match each maker's claims especially given the time of year, but what we hoped to learn (and did) was 'how' each car behaved over this 14 mile stretch of infamous tarmac and thereby be in a better position to assess the feasibility of each claimed time.
We visited the 'ring on Monday and Tuesday of last week (10th/11th Nov) and unfortunately it was lashing it down with rain. We also brought along Renault's Megane R26.R which has claimed the fastest production hatchback record around the 'ring (more of that next week), so we had a lot to accomplish in very little time. We were very kindly provided an hour or so on the track by organisers RMA, and ran both cars for a total of three laps recording a single fastest flying laptime.
Both cars were well run in; we used the GT2 several times earlier in the year and ran a seperate feature on it, we also drove this same GT-R in our feature comparing it against 997.2 PDK, R8 and Aston V8. So we knew the history of each car, that they were standard and did not favour either manufacturer. It's worth making clear that Porsche did not know about our intended use for the GT2 when we borrowed it - we've borrowed their GT2 5 or 6 times already this year, so it was no big deal.
As we assembled this feature and concluded on the times there were several aspects that struck us; firstly the GT2 found much more traction that we would expect on its cup+ tyres and therefore there was little or no traction advantage conferred by the GT-R's 4wd.
The GT-R was quicker into corners, mostly because of its stability under braking and the confidence this gave the driver. Both cars were near enough identical in terms of apex speeds, so were a match through most corners although the Nissan was on the power earlier in some slower corners.
But the biggest difference was how much faster the GT2 was than the GT-R in terms of power - there was a massive difference. 17mph in the GT2's favour felt even faster and this is where much of the GT2's advantage over the GT-R was attributed.
Chris felt that he got pretty close to the GT-R's potential around the lap, albeit the Dunlop tyres would have provided an extra 5 seconds of pace and a properly dry circuit with warmer temperatures would have helped both cars, so we guess that 7:45 or less would definitely be within the GT-R's reach.
The GT2 was more scary to drive at those speeds with a damp track and good-sense got the better of Chris in being able to eek out the last 10-15 seconds, but he's pretty confident that a 7:30 would be within Walter's grasp. So, Chris did not feel that he got as close to the GT2's limits as he did in the GT-R. And clearly if we'd had the time and money to run the cars all-day, reviewing the telemetry and spotting where extra time could be gained then a faster lap time would obviously have been possible.
So, did Suzuki really do 7:29? Well, he's certainly an awesome driver. We recorded a video with Suzuki back in May, which further shows his ability TV, videos, motorsport events, driving techniques | DR TV | DRIVERS REPUBLIC he certainly has a kamikaze do-or-die approach to driving and that's exactly what you need to set a fast time around the 'ring, so we don't doubt that on a better day he could have set a faster time (probably faster than 7:45), but the main difference between GT2 and GT-R was down to engine power and the fact that the GT-R got anywhere close to the GT2 was a great result.
If it wasn't for the whole debate around Nissan's claimed lap time I suspect everyone would now be patting Nissan on the back, but setting the whole PR issue aside for a moment it really is a tremendous achievement for a 1740kg car to get anywhere near to the times it has set. But the GT2, for the moment, is another step up in terms of performance.