PSS10 vs KW Variant 3...which is better ???
#47
12-02-2008, 03:45 PM
Smart money is on the Bilsteins as you can turn off and on the PASM. There are not many shops in the states where it seems you are buying your car would turn it off for you. Especially without signing discloures and releases. So if you are not here you better know someone who knows someone.
#50
12-02-2008, 09:23 PM
Thanks Alpine but I have no plan to change from the Bilstein. I am just curious about all the (good) alternatives out there.
#51
12-02-2008, 11:39 PM
Basic Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 49
Posts: 5,113
Rep Power: 256 
If anyone needs KW, we can help....just let us know
__________________
http://www.wheelexperts.com
email: peter@wheelexperts.com
HRE | Forgeline | Modulare | PUR | TechArt | Brabus | Novitec | Vossen | Avant Garde | Vorsteiner | BBS | Eisenmann | Quicksilver | Brembo | KW | WALD | +many more
***DFW Showroom now OPEN at 4515 McEwen Rd in Dallas, 1 block West of the Dallas Galleria***
***WE SHIP WORLDWIDE!!!!!***
http://www.wheelexperts.com
email: peter@wheelexperts.com
HRE | Forgeline | Modulare | PUR | TechArt | Brabus | Novitec | Vossen | Avant Garde | Vorsteiner | BBS | Eisenmann | Quicksilver | Brembo | KW | WALD | +many more
***DFW Showroom now OPEN at 4515 McEwen Rd in Dallas, 1 block West of the Dallas Galleria***
***WE SHIP WORLDWIDE!!!!!***
#52
12-03-2008, 02:39 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Russia
Posts: 1,457
Rep Power: 79 SPI 750 sold, another one (manual this time) is going to Switzer for new secret project
#53
12-03-2008, 02:42 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Russia
Posts: 1,457
Rep Power: 79 Its not that I want or dont want...we would need to have the car under control more...
#54
12-03-2008, 02:46 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Russia
Posts: 1,457
Rep Power: 79 Spoked to one guy who has KW 3 on his 996 TT and he said its very stiff and rides hard on oour roads but totally tranforms car handling performance...night and day as he said and he like it a lot...
#55
12-03-2008, 01:39 PM
All very good points, especially the part in bold. It's like asking for the "best" wheel, "best" exhaust, etc. There is no such thing.
Alpine, is 2500 for the KW Variant 3 with independent compression/rebound? If so, a great price for this coilover; much less costly than Moton's equivalent offering?
Auto Talent (or Alpine), do you happen to know what the spring rates are for these KW ? Is there some reason GT Rus is saying that about the KW? Or are we just being, er, "GT Rus'ed"
(new term) again?
Alpine, is 2500 for the KW Variant 3 with independent compression/rebound? If so, a great price for this coilover; much less costly than Moton's equivalent offering?
Auto Talent (or Alpine), do you happen to know what the spring rates are for these KW ? Is there some reason GT Rus is saying that about the KW? Or are we just being, er, "GT Rus'ed"
(new term) again?Alpine got the kit last year before the price increase of 2008, I was not the one who sold it to him but know the price from last year vs this year. Also, please make sure to compare apples to apples as prices vary depending on model.
Springs rates for the 997 Turbo are Progressive Front & 970lbs/in in the rear.
No doubt about the great quality of KW, and I've been told recently they are found in successful race car programs. However... if I understand Bobby's point correctly: How does KW compare to the equivalent coilover price wise (level wise)?
1. The Bilstein is around 2500. Does the Variant 3 that it's being compared against cost the same? (I saw something on KW web site that is around $5000? Is that the price of the Variant 3?)
2. If not, then how would KW compare against something that costs similarly and perhaps at the same level, maybe something by Moton http://www.gmgracing.com/porsche_suspension.shtml ?
Thanks for posting btw. I think it's so great that we have professionals on this forum.
1. The Bilstein is around 2500. Does the Variant 3 that it's being compared against cost the same? (I saw something on KW web site that is around $5000? Is that the price of the Variant 3?)
2. If not, then how would KW compare against something that costs similarly and perhaps at the same level, maybe something by Moton http://www.gmgracing.com/porsche_suspension.shtml ?
Thanks for posting btw. I think it's so great that we have professionals on this forum.
Retail on KW Variant 3 for 997 Turbo is $3795, we try to take good care of people so retail you will not pay
Thanks for the info...
What KW set up I can use for rough roads...I dont want the to jump around ??? All Porsche people here tell ME that it will be impossible to drive with KWs on our roads...Even in stock sport mode the car start to bounce on bump on pur roads
Been told that may be we can use softer spring then the ride will be OK...
I want it but I a bit concerned that I wont be able to drive the car as daily driver with such set up...
What KW set up I can use for rough roads...I dont want the to jump around ??? All Porsche people here tell ME that it will be impossible to drive with KWs on our roads...Even in stock sport mode the car start to bounce on bump on pur roads
Been told that may be we can use softer spring then the ride will be OK...
I want it but I a bit concerned that I wont be able to drive the car as daily driver with such set up...
My reference was in regards to "The Ring"
For what model car? For which system?
That is a super special deal but also based on KW's 2007 pricing. What you must have seen around $5000 is the HLS kit which is entirely different than KW Variant 3 coilovers.
#56
12-03-2008, 02:19 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: inside someone warm
Posts: 7,059
Rep Power: 380
Auto Talent is correct, you do lose the ability to "adjust" your suspension settings with the Bilsteins but I was actually not looking to do that. I wanted to retain the ability to adjust them via the PASM button. I didn't want to have to deal with getting that turned off via the dealership. I guess the bottom line is, what your ultimate goals are. How far do you want to go in tuning your car. My advice is spend your money on driving schools first and foremost before even thinking of adding horsepower or messing around with your suspension. I went to several driving schools, tracked several times, etc. So, I knew exactly what I wanted my Turbo to do. You could just as easily make your Turbo into a monster car but what good is that if you can't keep it until control? You could end up totaling it. I'll get off my soap box here.
As for the ZR-1. I was referring to the Nurburgring. Jim Mero drove a stock ZR1 around the 'ring in 7:26.4. But it looks like the Dodge Viper ACR beat that at 7:22. I stand corrected on that.
1. 7:22.1 - 2009 Dodge Viper ACR
2. 7:24.3 - Maserati MC12
3. 7:24.7 - Pagani Zonda F CS
4. 7:25.3 - Ferrari Enzo
5. 7:26.4 - Corvette ZR1
As for the ZR-1. I was referring to the Nurburgring. Jim Mero drove a stock ZR1 around the 'ring in 7:26.4. But it looks like the Dodge Viper ACR beat that at 7:22. I stand corrected on that.
1. 7:22.1 - 2009 Dodge Viper ACR
2. 7:24.3 - Maserati MC12
3. 7:24.7 - Pagani Zonda F CS
4. 7:25.3 - Ferrari Enzo
5. 7:26.4 - Corvette ZR1
#57
12-03-2008, 03:47 PM
Auto Talent is correct, you do lose the ability to "adjust" your suspension settings with the Bilsteins but I was actually not looking to do that. I wanted to retain the ability to adjust them via the PASM button. I didn't want to have to deal with getting that turned off via the dealership. I guess the bottom line is, what your ultimate goals are. How far do you want to go in tuning your car. My advice is spend your money on driving schools first and foremost before even thinking of adding horsepower or messing around with your suspension. I went to several driving schools, tracked several times, etc. So, I knew exactly what I wanted my Turbo to do. You could just as easily make your Turbo into a monster car but what good is that if you can't keep it until control? You could end up totaling it. I'll get off my soap box here.
. Every step you take to change the car is a compromise and it becomes a little bit less of a street car. DEs and driving schools come first everything else is extra, these cars are amazing machines out of the box.
#58
12-03-2008, 04:18 PM
BTW, just my personal preference: Like Atomic/Alpine, I would not want to go without PASM compatibility. I have come to appreciate the PASM funtion of the Bilstein, much more than the stock PASM. Night and day difference, with the difference being that the Firm Setting of Bilstein is totally useable (stock PASM is firm and jittery, and somewhat scary -- airborne! -- if you run into mid corner bumps at high enough speed).
Again thanks for taking time for the detailed reply. I think competition is good and it's great that an alternative is available at a reasonable price. So now we have Biltstein, KWV3, JRZ (Gotboost's Turbo), and Moton.
#59
12-03-2008, 05:21 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Orange County Socal
Posts: 1,621
Rep Power: 157
I'm no expert, but I think spring rates alone cannot be compared as apples to apples comparisons. The valving on all these struts and shocks are different and come into play. I think the combination of the valving and the spring rate is what completes the whole picture.
As for the adjustability part, be careful what you wish for. Adjustability is great, but only in the hands of some really knowledgable and experienced suspension experts. Suspensions like the KW's, JRZ's, and Motons can be adjusted above and beyond what we would ever use. Finding the right combination for your style of driving can be really fun, but a real pain in the *** at the same time. It is really time consuming.
If you don't have the time and a really experienced tuner to help set it up, the PSS10 Bilstein is the way to go. This setup is done to suit a wide variety of driving styles and it is not extreme in any one manner. Good balance of both worlds.. Just my opinion....
As for the adjustability part, be careful what you wish for. Adjustability is great, but only in the hands of some really knowledgable and experienced suspension experts. Suspensions like the KW's, JRZ's, and Motons can be adjusted above and beyond what we would ever use. Finding the right combination for your style of driving can be really fun, but a real pain in the *** at the same time. It is really time consuming.
If you don't have the time and a really experienced tuner to help set it up, the PSS10 Bilstein is the way to go. This setup is done to suit a wide variety of driving styles and it is not extreme in any one manner. Good balance of both worlds.. Just my opinion....
#60
12-03-2008, 06:40 PM
GT RUS you should feel lucky to have a board so responsive to you and to others. We have a lot of experience on this board and the competition creates a place such as this.
The spring rates can be deceptive and as GotBoost said the valving, how you set your compression/rebound will really suprise you on the actual feel of the shocks.
A while back I ran a set of Ground Control on my M5 which uses Eibach springs and Koni adjustable struts. I asked GC about their street setup and the spring rates. They said 340 fronts and 450 rears. Well for a porker the M5 was I felt that was not enough as I had ran 550/650 on my M3 and really liked it for street. I asked them to up it to 550/750 for the M5 and they said that I was crazy and that it would be too harsh.
Well needless to say they were wrong. I was dead on and solid with the rates that I asked for. So my point as well as GotBoost is that its not all in the spring rates as much as an overall package.
GT RUS if you are interested in getting a set ask SpeedPlay/Autotalent as they sell them and can work you a deal perhaps.
The spring rates can be deceptive and as GotBoost said the valving, how you set your compression/rebound will really suprise you on the actual feel of the shocks.
A while back I ran a set of Ground Control on my M5 which uses Eibach springs and Koni adjustable struts. I asked GC about their street setup and the spring rates. They said 340 fronts and 450 rears. Well for a porker the M5 was I felt that was not enough as I had ran 550/650 on my M3 and really liked it for street. I asked them to up it to 550/750 for the M5 and they said that I was crazy and that it would be too harsh.
Well needless to say they were wrong. I was dead on and solid with the rates that I asked for. So my point as well as GotBoost is that its not all in the spring rates as much as an overall package.
GT RUS if you are interested in getting a set ask SpeedPlay/Autotalent as they sell them and can work you a deal perhaps.