997 Turbo / GT2 2006–2012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.
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Upgrading from PSS10 to JIC Cross, write up, details and pics...

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  #16  
Old 02-13-2009, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by vividracing
who is VVR Vivid Racing!

First, glad you are happy. Customers like yourself challenge me and help me learn. "Dont assume anything". Best thing someone has ever said to me as it helps in qualifying what a customer really needs. Having run the JIC Cross myself on my 996C2, 996TT, and now my 997TT, I am very comfortable with this suspension. Most people go with the PSS10 because of the PASM functionality. To be honest, that feature is cool, but I would say that I never used it. For a car that is going to be tracked or driven hard on the street, the benefits of the JIC far out weigh the PASM compatibility of the PSS10. Front camber plates and rear pillowball mounts in place of the stock rubber strut tops give the car much more responsive steering. 16 way adjustable dampening is easy to access and dial in with your tire and sway bar settings at the track. I used to track the **** out of my 996TT, I have not tracked my 997TT once and dont plan on it. But I drive it hard and that is worth it to me. For those worried about the PASM light, follow the instructions here for easy diable - http://www.vividracing.com/forums/pr...-vr-997tt.html

In the end I am glad KA is happy and I look forward to the progression of your car!
I never used the PASM either, it was too harsh and even more bouncy.
I got a call from the Stealership to let me know that the vehicle settled down about 2mm all the way since we did the alignment.
measuring from the frame:
F: 114mm 114mm (Even) it was at 115mm 117mm
R: 131mm 132mm it was at 133mm 134mm

I will be driving it for about 1000 miles then remeasure and realign.
one thing for sure, i am looking forward to driving the hell out of it.

Thanks Dan.
 
  #17  
Old 02-13-2009, 09:44 AM
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Usually on any spring they settle slightly. Not much though as you can see. It is right away. When you have the spring perch set properly you wont have to worry about any sag either. Because the linear spring is coupled with a helper spring, they will ride nice on the street and lean well on the track for a long time

Next stop, power land!
 
  #18  
Old 02-13-2009, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by vividracing
Usually on any spring they settle slightly. Not much though as you can see. It is right away. When you have the spring perch set properly you wont have to worry about any sag either. Because the linear spring is coupled with a helper spring, they will ride nice on the street and lean well on the track for a long time

Next stop, power land!
you do not expect any more settling I take it? 2 mm is nothing??
 
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:31 AM
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No you should not have any more settling. Usually the car settles right away once you take it off the lift and drive it back and forth.
 
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TT Gasman
Looks good. Does anybody know what the height limitations are with PSS10, high and low?
OT -- from an old post:

I called Bilstein re. ride height for PSS10 as there is a potential problem with hitting the damper's internal bump stop if you lower the car too much. The official recommendation is that ride heights be reduced 10-30 mm front, and 5-25mm rear. It's interesting that they do NOT recommend stock ride heights. That is, if you are using PSS10, you should lower the car at least 10mm.
 
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:57 PM
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Alignment specs

here are my alignment specs
 
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  #22  
Old 02-13-2009, 06:10 PM
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I did the same sort of thing on my 996TT...full JIC, H&R sways front and rear, Agency Power sways front and rear (big, beefy things). Car rides like a cup car ....and is nice on rough roads too. Changed it into a beast on the track.....best money spent.
 
  #23  
Old 02-13-2009, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga
OT -- from an old post:

I called Bilstein re. ride height for PSS10 as there is a potential problem with hitting the damper's internal bump stop if you lower the car too much. The official recommendation is that ride heights be reduced 10-30 mm front, and 5-25mm rear. It's interesting that they do NOT recommend stock ride heights. That is, if you are using PSS10, you should lower the car at least 10mm.
Thanks. Interesting, I may have to raise my car back to factory height. I'm tired of the beating my front end takes on my steep driveway. My choices are stock springs or a coil over set to factory ride height.
 

Last edited by TT Gasman; 02-13-2009 at 07:12 PM.
  #24  
Old 02-13-2009, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TT Gasman
Thanks. Interesting, I may have to raise my car back to factory height. I'm tired of the beating my front end takes on my steep driveway. My choices are stock springs or a coil over set to factory ride height.
The JIC's will let you go up to the factory ride height, I would try them out. The way you adjust the ride height is independent from the preload on the spring, one of the reasons i went with this set.
 
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by KA 997TT
The JIC's will let you go up to the factory ride height, I would try them out. The way you adjust the ride height is independent from the preload on the spring, one of the reasons i went with this set.
Out of curiosity, will that allow you to adjust ride height without having to re-corner balance everytime?
 
  #26  
Old 02-13-2009, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GotBoost?
Out of curiosity, will that allow you to adjust ride height without having to re-corner balance everytime?
yes and no...
But the most important thing is you are not messing with the springs preload, but, if you are tracking the car, i would say any time you change the ride height, you need to re-balance and re-align. the ride height on mine canged only 2mm but it leveled itself out on all corners, i had one corner in the rear 1mm lower than the other, both fronts are equal (measured from the frame 114 mm both sides) this being said, it does not mean my car is blanced on all 4 corners especially when i sit in it!
I am going to drive it for about 500 miles, get the corner balance done then re-align. It is worth it to me.

If you look at the picture, you will see where the height adjustment on the strust is, unlinke the PSS10's you do not need to move the springs up or down.
 
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:59 AM
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Doug,
You're welcome. IMHO, there is a solution: The H&R lowering spring lowers the car too much for your case. At 25mm, it is more than double that of the Bilstein's 10mm! I mean I don't really know how the 2 would compare in real life -- once installed on the car, but on paper, the Bilstein could be set quite a bit higher. The other choice is of course the JIC Cross here which seems like it doesn't need to be lowered at all.
That would be quite a bummer if you have to go back to stock! Especially since you're now used to the lowered look, I am afraid stock will look positively 4x4. And of course the handling disadvantage at the track w/ higher ride height.

KA 997TT,
Really asking here because despite of much "talking" about suspension, I actually have never touched anything as far as installation and therefore know little of the actual working mechanism.
I look at your pictures and couldn't see the difference between Bilstein and JIC Cross, as far as the spring height mechanism is concerned. There is just that ring (spring perch?) that your rotate to lower or raise the spring. And it looks to be the same in both??
The Cross could be set at stock height definitely? No problem with coil bind?

Originally Posted by TT Gasman
Thanks. Interesting, I may have to raise my car back to factory height. I'm tired of the beating my front end takes on my steep driveway. My choices are stock springs or a coil over set to factory ride height.
 

Last edited by cannga; 02-14-2009 at 09:02 AM.
  #28  
Old 02-14-2009, 01:51 PM
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"You're welcome. IMHO, there is a solution: The H&R lowering spring lowers the car too much for your case. At 25mm, it is more than double that of the Bilstein's 10mm! I mean I don't really know how the 2 would compare in real life -- once installed on the car, but on paper, the Bilstein could be set quite a bit higher. The other choice is of course the JIC Cross here which seems like it doesn't need to be lowered at all.
That would be quite a bummer if you have to go back to stock! Especially since you're now used to the lowered look, I am afraid stock will look positively 4x4. And of course the handling disadvantage at the track w/ higher ride height."

Can, the question is would the Bilstein at just 10mm be worth the expense?? I think I'll be ok at the track, the GT2 bar really helps a lot, that and R compounds. My car goes in next month for a major upgrade maybe I'll deal with it then.
 
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Old 02-14-2009, 03:57 PM
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Aren't we all using the PASM-compatible Bilstein B16 Damptronic's? I thought the PSS10's were for the non-PASM cars.
 
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Old 02-14-2009, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga
Doug,
You're welcome. IMHO, there is a solution: The H&R lowering spring lowers the car too much for your case. At 25mm, it is more than double that of the Bilstein's 10mm! I mean I don't really know how the 2 would compare in real life -- once installed on the car, but on paper, the Bilstein could be set quite a bit higher. The other choice is of course the JIC Cross here which seems like it doesn't need to be lowered at all.
That would be quite a bummer if you have to go back to stock! Especially since you're now used to the lowered look, I am afraid stock will look positively 4x4. And of course the handling disadvantage at the track w/ higher ride height.

KA 997TT,
Really asking here because despite of much "talking" about suspension, I actually have never touched anything as far as installation and therefore know little of the actual working mechanism.
I look at your pictures and couldn't see the difference between Bilstein and JIC Cross, as far as the spring height mechanism is concerned. There is just that ring (spring perch?) that your rotate to lower or raise the spring. And it looks to be the same in both??
The Cross could be set at stock height definitely? No problem with coil bind?
I assisted the lead tech at the local P dealer with the installation as i put on a few myself.
If you look closely, you will see that the struts are fully adjustable from the top and the bottom unlike the PSS10.
 
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