Brembo vs PCCB's
#17
02-21-2009, 12:21 PM
2) I feel that with the extra power the steel brakes are fine but not great . I wanted more --not just in suspension , not just Hp, but in every detailed aspect of this car .
#18
02-21-2009, 12:27 PM
The PCCB's are a great deal if you purchase them with the car. Spending $15k - $18k after the fact is not worth it at all.
Do you track your car or is this just for daily driving?
I opted for the Brembo GT kit, monoblock calipers in yellow, for my own car.
997TT Steel discs = 350mm (Heaviest)
997TT Brembo GT = 380mm (Much Lighter)
997TT PCCB = 380mm (Lightest)
Unless you can find a good deal on a used set of PBBB's I'd cross that off your list.
If you're just doing it for look, go ahead and just paint your OEM calipers.
If you're doing it for performance, Brembo has a couple different options, and I can get you hooked up on any of them.
1) Paint your OEM calipers yellow then add the 2-piece Brembo discs.
2) Go for the full Brembo GT kit that already comes with 2-piece discs, larger, lighter, stiffer calipers, braided lines, and good pads.
You can PM me or call me for pricing.
Ben
Do you track your car or is this just for daily driving?
I opted for the Brembo GT kit, monoblock calipers in yellow, for my own car.
997TT Steel discs = 350mm (Heaviest)
997TT Brembo GT = 380mm (Much Lighter)
997TT PCCB = 380mm (Lightest)
Unless you can find a good deal on a used set of PBBB's I'd cross that off your list.
If you're just doing it for look, go ahead and just paint your OEM calipers.
If you're doing it for performance, Brembo has a couple different options, and I can get you hooked up on any of them.
1) Paint your OEM calipers yellow then add the 2-piece Brembo discs.
2) Go for the full Brembo GT kit that already comes with 2-piece discs, larger, lighter, stiffer calipers, braided lines, and good pads.
You can PM me or call me for pricing.
Ben
#19
02-21-2009, 01:08 PM
1) The fact that so many use it does not make it the best . There are others but I think in terms of performance , value and resale these well known brakes are respected and offer a fine balance .
2) I feel that with the extra power the steel brakes are fine but not great . I wanted more --not just in suspension , not just Hp, but in every detailed aspect of this car .
2) I feel that with the extra power the steel brakes are fine but not great . I wanted more --not just in suspension , not just Hp, but in every detailed aspect of this car .
They would last longer on the track YES but in real life stopping distance wont change...
#20
02-21-2009, 01:11 PM
Frank please do a search...I have asked that question before...the difference is not that great compared to steels vs brembos...but steel vs Pccb is quite big...
#21
02-21-2009, 03:04 PM
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You might want to paint them, and see if they brake better. 
No, seriously, you might want to go that option first, and see how it looks, and decide if you want to take the further investment route $$.
No, seriously, you might want to go that option first, and see how it looks, and decide if you want to take the further investment route $$.
#22
02-21-2009, 04:21 PM
Can stated this
" In other words, you need a certain braking force to stop a 3500 lbs. car at 130 mph; it matters very little how much power was used to get the car to 130 mph!"
I completely disagree . It DOES matter how quickly a car can accelerate because a person who can reach high speed in a longer time has MORE time to ponder when and where to hit those brakes . If one can climb to high speed faster the split second decision to hit the brakes tilts towards overall safety if they can fade less and stop on a dime .
Again I insist that PCCBs were designed and placed into a STOCK 997tt . Had Porsche made a 700 Hp car it's anyones guess if they would have placed those same brakes in . The aftermarket takes into consideration the modifications done to thse cars wheras the manufacturer not only doesn't but even frowns on it.
#23
02-21-2009, 04:28 PM
yrralis,
Yes if fade resistance is taken into consideration, then I would assume the big Brembo would be better than Big Red. It'd better be! (Does anyone have any URL that has this sort of testing? Really asking here.)
BTW, fade resistance is a hallmark of carbon fiber brake. Yet proving this is so has been elusive and for the life of me I don't know why no car mag has ever done it. Some US rag did it but I don't believe they brake it enough to cause fade yet. Take 2 cars and brake it all out about 50 times then measure; there must be some proof somewhere. (You could now see why this question will never be laid to rest in private hands. It's hard enough for the pro's to do it; & I don't think I will subject my PCCB to this kind of test!)
I guess the other big question is that if you don't track, do we ever brake hard and often enough to see fade on the street? I don't know.
SRatha,
That is one of the irony of PCCB: All of its advantages suggest it should be the first choice for track (lightweight, bite, fade), yet in real life I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole were I to track the car.
PCCB doesn't wear, yet it is brittle. Using on the street, it is indeed very impressive: Lifespan speculation ranges from 70-100k upward. On the track, one mishap (for example hit by stone) and you're out 5-10k. Even without an accident, I wouldn't take a chance with PCCB on the track. (New airplane bodies are made of the same material; scary isn't it?
)
On the street, the record of PCCB Gen II is impeccable, so far.
Yes if fade resistance is taken into consideration, then I would assume the big Brembo would be better than Big Red. It'd better be! (Does anyone have any URL that has this sort of testing? Really asking here.)
BTW, fade resistance is a hallmark of carbon fiber brake. Yet proving this is so has been elusive and for the life of me I don't know why no car mag has ever done it. Some US rag did it but I don't believe they brake it enough to cause fade yet. Take 2 cars and brake it all out about 50 times then measure; there must be some proof somewhere. (You could now see why this question will never be laid to rest in private hands. It's hard enough for the pro's to do it; & I don't think I will subject my PCCB to this kind of test!)
I guess the other big question is that if you don't track, do we ever brake hard and often enough to see fade on the street? I don't know.
SRatha,
That is one of the irony of PCCB: All of its advantages suggest it should be the first choice for track (lightweight, bite, fade), yet in real life I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole were I to track the car.
PCCB doesn't wear, yet it is brittle. Using on the street, it is indeed very impressive: Lifespan speculation ranges from 70-100k upward. On the track, one mishap (for example hit by stone) and you're out 5-10k. Even without an accident, I wouldn't take a chance with PCCB on the track. (New airplane bodies are made of the same material; scary isn't it?
)On the street, the record of PCCB Gen II is impeccable, so far.
Can -
I wish to clarrify and say my use of the word "better" was geared towards MY specific driving expectations . Someone else may define "better" as cost effective and he may buy the steel brakes , leave his car stock , and actually get a great value out of owning the car for less . It just depends on ones frame of reference .
I also agree that stopping the car is what is being discussed. The Brembo stops my car with less fade than steel brakes and since you agree that PCCB distances are equivalent to the steel --these appear to cut that distance. I won't make absolute claims with no evidence but you wish to run a test lets set up the guideliness and figure out how so this can be laid to rest.
I wish to clarrify and say my use of the word "better" was geared towards MY specific driving expectations . Someone else may define "better" as cost effective and he may buy the steel brakes , leave his car stock , and actually get a great value out of owning the car for less . It just depends on ones frame of reference .
I also agree that stopping the car is what is being discussed. The Brembo stops my car with less fade than steel brakes and since you agree that PCCB distances are equivalent to the steel --these appear to cut that distance. I won't make absolute claims with no evidence but you wish to run a test lets set up the guideliness and figure out how so this can be laid to rest.
#24
02-21-2009, 04:56 PM
yrralis,
Yes if fade resistance is taken into consideration, then I would assume the big Brembo would be better than Big Red. It'd better be! (Does anyone have any URL that has this sort of testing? Really asking here.)
BTW, fade resistance is a hallmark of carbon fiber brake. Yet proving this is so has been elusive and for the life of me I don't know why no car mag has ever done it. Some US rag did it but I don't believe they brake it enough to cause fade yet. Take 2 cars and brake it all out about 50 times then measure; there must be some proof somewhere. (You could now see why this question will never be laid to rest in private hands. It's hard enough for the pro's to do it; & I don't think I will subject my PCCB to this kind of test!)
I guess the other big question is that if you don't track, do we ever brake hard and often enough to see fade on the street? I don't know.
.
Yes if fade resistance is taken into consideration, then I would assume the big Brembo would be better than Big Red. It'd better be! (Does anyone have any URL that has this sort of testing? Really asking here.)
BTW, fade resistance is a hallmark of carbon fiber brake. Yet proving this is so has been elusive and for the life of me I don't know why no car mag has ever done it. Some US rag did it but I don't believe they brake it enough to cause fade yet. Take 2 cars and brake it all out about 50 times then measure; there must be some proof somewhere. (You could now see why this question will never be laid to rest in private hands. It's hard enough for the pro's to do it; & I don't think I will subject my PCCB to this kind of test!)
I guess the other big question is that if you don't track, do we ever brake hard and often enough to see fade on the street? I don't know.
.
#25
02-21-2009, 05:00 PM
Can --
One other thing . The 997 line up of primary street cars has the base coupe , the S , and the Turbo. All three have different brakes . Porsche does take into consideration which brakes go on what car even with smaller HP disparity than the highly modded ones.
One other thing . The 997 line up of primary street cars has the base coupe , the S , and the Turbo. All three have different brakes . Porsche does take into consideration which brakes go on what car even with smaller HP disparity than the highly modded ones.
#26
02-22-2009, 12:54 AM
Thanks Mike. I certainly will. I think the difference is actually quite big between brembro and steel particularly since brembro is 2-piece. Just trying to get an idea as to how much PCCBS weigh. I think there is at least a 15 pound difference (caliper and rotor) between stock and brembro.
#27
02-22-2009, 06:51 AM
GT RUS asking someone else to do a search! Just kidding...
Going back to the topic,
997ttt, are you simply changing brakes because of aesthetics? Your OP mentions that you simply miss the yellow calipers. For most daily drivers, the regular steel discs are probably more than enough. They are far better than the previous 996TT steel rotors. If it is simply the yellow look...just have them repainted. It's really inexpensive to strip and powdercoat compared to swapping rotors and calipers to a new system.
Last edited by bbywu; 02-22-2009 at 06:57 AM.
#28
02-22-2009, 09:07 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Columbia Ca. JSA
Age: 70
Posts: 558
Rep Power: 46
A cars stopping power is limited by traction until heat build up where it is limited by the breaks ability to handle or get rid of heat.
I live in the mountains and have always been able to easily been able to find fade in almost any breaking system. My Porsche PCCBs are the first set that I have been unable to fade. Strangest thing, pushing hard going down hill and the breaks actually got better. This was with less that 2K miles on the car, so I suspect that the extra heat cased them to break in during that one down hill jaunt.
A lot can be debated, however I can not find a single fault with my PCCBs. Absolutely love them.
I live in the mountains and have always been able to easily been able to find fade in almost any breaking system. My Porsche PCCBs are the first set that I have been unable to fade. Strangest thing, pushing hard going down hill and the breaks actually got better. This was with less that 2K miles on the car, so I suspect that the extra heat cased them to break in during that one down hill jaunt.
A lot can be debated, however I can not find a single fault with my PCCBs. Absolutely love them.
#29
02-22-2009, 09:52 AM
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Saint Louis
Posts: 208
Rep Power: 25
Just a "little" different
Performance is important to me. At what level and at what cost is always the issue.
Looks are also important to me.
I remember distinctly with my 08 997TT Cab, Arctic Silver with PCCB's. The brakes really really stood out. I thought that it might just be that the calipers were yellow. (in this color combination however, yellow calipers on Arctic Silver, it just did not look "perfect") But the brakes stood out. Now I am not so sure it was just the yellow calipers. I have seen Brembo's with "Yellow" calipers on other 997TT's in person. It did not "pop" like it the PCCB's. I think for 2 reasons.
1. the PCCB Calipers are larger (not 100% sure about this... would love to see them side by side off of the car)
2. the discs I also are larger with the PCCB's (this was posted in this thread)
However, strange enough, this was one of the reasons my 08 997TT was in the shop so often during my short ownership of the car (May 2008 to Jan 2009). Then damn breaks would squeek like you would not believe. It was not the "normal" squeek that people talk about with both the PCCB's and the Big Reds. It took forever for Porsche to agree to replace the whole damn thing. They finally replaced it but I never drove the car with the new PCCB's. I did the trade for my 09 997TT Black/Black coupe while it was still in the shop. The other reason I did the trade was because I figured out after 7 months of owning a convertable, the convertables were not for me. I need a Sunroof. If I was in Honolulu, this would be different. When I did have the top down, it was either too hot or too cold. It was RARELY ever a perfect day. (sorry, off the topic)
So this is what I was thinking of doing.
My 997TT cab with the brand new PCCB's is still on the lot on sale (not surprising).
I was thinking of talking with the owner and seeing what I could do to trade out my Big Reds for these PCCB's.
I was thinking of offering maybe 6,000 on the trade. (including installation)
any thoughts?
tx again
Looks are also important to me.
I remember distinctly with my 08 997TT Cab, Arctic Silver with PCCB's. The brakes really really stood out. I thought that it might just be that the calipers were yellow. (in this color combination however, yellow calipers on Arctic Silver, it just did not look "perfect") But the brakes stood out. Now I am not so sure it was just the yellow calipers. I have seen Brembo's with "Yellow" calipers on other 997TT's in person. It did not "pop" like it the PCCB's. I think for 2 reasons.
1. the PCCB Calipers are larger (not 100% sure about this... would love to see them side by side off of the car)
2. the discs I also are larger with the PCCB's (this was posted in this thread)
However, strange enough, this was one of the reasons my 08 997TT was in the shop so often during my short ownership of the car (May 2008 to Jan 2009). Then damn breaks would squeek like you would not believe. It was not the "normal" squeek that people talk about with both the PCCB's and the Big Reds. It took forever for Porsche to agree to replace the whole damn thing. They finally replaced it but I never drove the car with the new PCCB's. I did the trade for my 09 997TT Black/Black coupe while it was still in the shop. The other reason I did the trade was because I figured out after 7 months of owning a convertable, the convertables were not for me. I need a Sunroof. If I was in Honolulu, this would be different. When I did have the top down, it was either too hot or too cold. It was RARELY ever a perfect day. (sorry, off the topic)
So this is what I was thinking of doing.
My 997TT cab with the brand new PCCB's is still on the lot on sale (not surprising).
I was thinking of talking with the owner and seeing what I could do to trade out my Big Reds for these PCCB's.
I was thinking of offering maybe 6,000 on the trade. (including installation)
any thoughts?
tx again