I'm one of those who actually think the Cayman is a better looking car. I've been a Porsche fanatic since I went to my first auto race, which was the 1968 24 hours of Daytona (when Porsche 907's took the first 3 places). For most of my life I have wanted to own a 911, and actually did own a pre-owned 1980 911SC. When I was finally able to swing a new 911, out comes the Cayman S and my opinion changed drastically. I would like to have the same choice of motors for the Cayman series as is offered for the 911 series.

 

This basically sums up Porsches conundrum.
We have all read articles about slightly modded Caymans and how great they perform. If POrsche builds a Cayman "GT" it will eat up 911 market share.

I really think POrsche is one of the few companies that needs no tinkering. Every model line is perfect. The aftermarket really does solve most peoples issues, and I think Porsche is just fine with this.

If you want more go from your Cayman, I can think of a few guys you could call and you'll be smoking 911's all day, all night.

 

They already built the Cayman GT except to make sure non of the 911 guys would be offended they called it the CarreraGT and priced twice as much as the GT2.

 

Priced it?

A carbon fiber monocoque isn't exactly cheap. For what's on the CGT and what went into it, and considering Porsches size and the developement cost for a limited production car, there was no way it should have been even in the realm of price of a GT2.


On a side note, the 911 isn't the flagship ONLY because it's different. A lot of people get them so they can still put a child in the back and it's versatile. A little mid engine car could not support such a small brand as a flagship. Then you end up having to produce a front engine something, probably a sedan and end up like everyone else.

 

Orly? I was under the impression that the Carrera GT was a mothballed race car project brought to life as a limited production street car.

 

You guys are missing the point. There isn't any room for a CaymanGT because it would completely overlap the Carrera/S and with enough horsepower it'll move into the GT3's territory.

The only way that Porsche was going to bring a mid-engine car to the market was either to completely underpower it so it's no where near the 911 or overpower it so much so that again it doesn't really create much of a comparison to a 911.

 

Since the 911 and Cayman share a huge parts commonality, why would Porsche cannabalize sales of the 911?

 

You are correct, but not "mothballed". The Carrera GT can be traced back to its predecessors, the 911 GT1 and LMP1-98. The racing version was stopped in 1999 but later Porsche started on a street legal version. The production was to be limited to 1,500 vehicles and started in 2003 but was stopped at 1270 because of changing DOT airbag rules in 2006; about 600 were delivered in the USA, I believe. If you have one it is still worth what you paid for it according to Barrett-Jackson. The race version using much of the same technology but a different engine became the RS Spyder that dominated LMP-2 the last several years at Lemans and ALMS.

 

That's exactly what I plan to do. And, at this point in time it makes so much sense to do so. Caymans have depreciated so much that it doesn't make much sense to sell one. It's such a great car that I don't mind keeping it for a while. But, I'd like more power, so my plan is to give TPC a call in the not too distant future. They are offering some out of this world options.

 

The four litre engine that was introduced late in the ALMS season did not have direct injection.

 

Listen it took Porsche 30 or so years to get the 911’s handling in order. The last time they tried to replace it was with the 928. The Boxster and now Cayman were never intended as replacements as it was stated before. Or else they would have actually given them enough power to have a chance of making a decent 0-60 not repeatable by a Honda civic. Do you know of any other cars manufactured today that are rear engined? Think maybe there is a reason. Don’t try to argue that the 911 is a superior car because it is rear engined, or say anything about the rear seat being a selling point. Have you ever ridden in the rear seat of any 911? It is superior because Porsche want it to be. If they made the Cayman to the same performance standard as the 911 I could tell you which would put down a faster lap. Also don’t pull the alms card. I base my reasoning on the fact there is more to the world of racing then America. Porsche only races in cretin classes, with cretin tires, and provides certain supports for a reason. They don’t want their flagship car to loose or look bad, understandably so. Ill put it like this, you can have your 600 hp gt2, or however much power you can imagine 700, 800, 900, what ever. Ill take a DBRS9 out of the gt1 class which the 911 would get humiliated in. The results would be either the 911 not keeping up with its current 485, or if they could magically find a couple hundred more hp it would wreck all over the place because its rwd, has the engine/weight in the rear and the tires wouldn’t last for more then a lap or two. So I am basing my statements on the fact that cars have tires, and without a good tire a car is nothing. Even if Porsche hasn’t reached their full potential, at least in racing context, they are pretty close with a rwd 911 in racing. Did you hear Lee diffey talking about the 911 in the alms? Well there are lot of people who smell blood in the water, and Porsche has something in mind that is not a 911 for the gt2. I’m not trying to step on anyone’s toes, just trying to get everyone to acknowledge there is another side of the road. I agree there is room to improve and change it, just I see more potential in areas other then performance.

I never suggested putting the engine of a 911 in a different spot, and thinking they will make an 8 cylinder version is far more unrealistic then a super Cayman. Plenty of tuners make the possibility of more power very realistic and reliable with just 6. Making the car lighter, easier to drive, and more fuel efficient is the obvious direction for any car or manufacturer.

The 4-door arena is another logical step, and the brochure of the Panamera actually made it look good, until I saw the rear end. It would look better after someone rear ended it! I never said making a non exotic mid engined 911 killer Porsche was something that would fit their product line or profit goals. I just simply don’t see how it would be so hard to offer the option of the engine of a turbo, when offering the option of turbo like brakes. The current entry level 911 comes with 345hp with the highest level version at 530. The Boxster and Cayman come with just two variations since I won’t count the highly sought “limited editions” 255-320hp. Just the difference in power from the base Carrera to the gt2, 185hp, isn’t too far off the total power of the base Boxster, and is more then half the total power of the Cayman s. The whole point of this little rant is simple. Porsche figured out how to share parts between models. So give me an option of a 480 or 530hp Cayman and go ahead and charge me the 30k difference between the two engines, ill be very happy, so will many others!

 

You guys are forgetting something, Wiedeking is a finance guy and a stone cold finance genius at that first and foremost. Porsche didn't get to be the most profitable company in the world by listening to Porsche traditionalist. They do the right thing when it comes to profits not pundits. Things like the diesel Cayenne which is in production, and I am sure at some point the Panamera will get the diesel and or a V6 model.

If the Panamera does what it is supposed to do and sells well and profitably I could even imagine them bringing a 928 out. Does anyone remember the 4 door 989 prototype that sent Porsche traditionalists into a tailspin?

 

I have just read all of this thread and can say one thing. For all of us to be here discussing this...Porsche is doing everything right.
We are all waiting for the next models. They make greatness and they always will.

 

19000 rpm you continue to ignore the fact that Porsche has to sell street cars too. A cayman has no back seats, and there is no such thing as a mid engined car with back seats. THIS is why it will never supplant the 911. That is what makes the 911 superior.

Why would you compare a full street chassis 911 RSR to tube frame GT1 cars? Can you not get the point that GT1 is prototype cars with a shell on them and nothing like a true street car??? And last I saw the RSR's were only 4-5 seconds slower per lap than the GT1 corvettes at Sebring over a 2 minute lap, with bigger tire, more aero, bigger wheelbase, bigger brakes, tons more hp even more torque, all while being tube framed prototypes. I venture to say the hp alone would be enough to put the RSR's in the ballpark. Not to mention the RSR's are limited to how much hp they can produce after 7500 rpms.

I know that American racing isn't the only racing, but it's the fastest true production chassis racing in the world, and the Porsches are clearly the fastest. Even with the engine in the "wrong place". Maybe Porsche can teach Ferrari how to build a mig-engine car that's faster than the RSR's. But oh, I thought Ferrari had the most wins of any manufacturer in F1, so why would they need help.

When you're done comparing apples to sea-weed, then you can return to reality and realize that Porsche still sales the most race cars on an annual basis in the world, and almost all of them are 911's. Go figure.


Go do some homework and try to present a decent arguement with some real comparisons, then we can talk.

 

I did my homework, and there are plenty that will agree with me. If they sold a Cayman with the same power at a turbo, they would sell far fewer turbos, plain and simple. Don’t bring up the back “seats” to support your 911 superior argument. A gym bag doesn’t fit back there!

If the Porsches are the fastest in gt2 why did they loose? Why did Lee Diffey’s interview show teams with 911’s feeling out of options and limited on performance gains to be had. Why was a non 911 platform brought up? Maybe your going to tell me its because they forgot to put the rear seats in for the race?