Porsche unveils facelifted 2010 Turbo!
#106
08-11-2009, 11:29 AM
Porsche knows that more than 90% of its Turbo customers don't care or know the difference from the GT1 to the new DFI motor. They just want the new car, hence write a check for 2 year/3 year lease. Further, who out there is hitting the kind of G's on the track that will starve the motor of oil? I never had an issue in my C2S when I had it, but I am an intermediate track driver at best. If I could, I would have a dedicated track car for that kind of fun!
So, that leaves the 10% or less that may buy in or go to another brand.
So, that leaves the 10% or less that may buy in or go to another brand.
Last edited by joecmess; 08-11-2009 at 11:44 AM.
#107
08-11-2009, 11:33 AM
Porsche knows that more than 90% of its Turbo customers don't care or know the difference from the GT1 to the new DFI motor. Further, who out there is hitting the kind of G's on the track that will starve the motor of oil? I never had an issue in my C2S, but I am an intermediate track driver at best.
So, that leaves the 10% or less that may buy in or go to another brand.
So, that leaves the 10% or less that may buy in or go to another brand.
#108
08-11-2009, 11:50 AM
We saw what VW did with Lambo, take some hints.
Porsche will suffer a loss of identity, and a complete make over.
We are all assuming at this point that VW will screw the pooch. Maybe someone over there has a brain, the new engine is sure to **** off the repeat buyers club. Not so sure I see a large group of new wealth coming into the market any time soon.
Porsche should be careful as to not **** off current owners.
BMW did that and we are all driving AUDI's now
Anyone see Bangle?
Porsche will suffer a loss of identity, and a complete make over.
We are all assuming at this point that VW will screw the pooch. Maybe someone over there has a brain, the new engine is sure to **** off the repeat buyers club. Not so sure I see a large group of new wealth coming into the market any time soon.
Porsche should be careful as to not **** off current owners.
BMW did that and we are all driving AUDI's now
Anyone see Bangle?I don't see any real hurt by VW, hopefully just more bank.
#109
08-11-2009, 12:24 PM
Porsche knows that more than 90% of its Turbo customers don't care or know the difference from the GT1 to the new DFI motor. They just want the new car, hence write a check for 2 year/3 year lease. Further, who out there is hitting the kind of G's on the track that will starve the motor of oil? I never had an issue in my C2S when I had it, but I am an intermediate track driver at best. If I could, I would have a dedicated track car for that kind of fun!
So, that leaves the 10% or less that may buy in or go to another brand.
So, that leaves the 10% or less that may buy in or go to another brand.
As far as Gs at the track, I have seen wild oil pressure fluctuations first hand in the 996 at the track, turn 2 at TWS (CW) 5bar-2bar-5bar at sustained 6000 rpms in my 996 C2. I know of 2 engine failures from oil starvation in 996s here in Texas. It happens, and it's not pretty. Conversely, my dry sump Turbo is like a rock at those speeds, the oil pressure never fluctuates one bit with R compounds or Hoosier slicks.
Last edited by TT Gasman; 08-11-2009 at 12:28 PM.
#110
08-11-2009, 01:11 PM
but I surely hope they are better than previous Generic motor.Peter
#111
08-11-2009, 05:21 PM
#112
08-11-2009, 05:42 PM
Im not sure what he meant either but when he speaks I'd listen...he knows his way around a Porsche engine or two. He is probably pissed he will have to make more carbon $4,000 lights vs. modding A91's to generate some revenue going forward! I kid, I kid.
#113
08-11-2009, 07:22 PM
No, it's not a wet sump because the oiling system is still fed the same as it would be whether the reservoir was inside or outside of the engine. It doesn't matter where the reservoir is placed.
The 997.1 Carreras are a wet sump. .2's are integrated and 997.1 turbos, GT2's and GT3's are dry sump.
Yes, the 458 is a traditional dry sump, traditional race set up.
The 997.1 Carreras are a wet sump. .2's are integrated and 997.1 turbos, GT2's and GT3's are dry sump.
Yes, the 458 is a traditional dry sump, traditional race set up.
Anyways, my whole issue with this is that 997.2 Turbo buyers are going to pay about $2k more base price than the 997.1 Turbo owners but with an engine which is inferior and is cheaper to build. Is this what allows Porsche to "get more from less"?; that's where the whole "efficiency" they talk about comes from IMHO... a substantially increased profit margin where you pay more for less and, conversely, they get more by giving buyers less.
Last edited by cibergypsy; 08-11-2009 at 07:27 PM.
#115
08-11-2009, 07:33 PM
My opinion of them being better than their predecessor is in regards to a host of improvements, lighter, more efficient, more power, more torque and supposedly a better oiling system (as proclaimed by Porsche) even if both are considered integrated dry sump engines.
#118
08-12-2009, 07:24 AM
Anyways, my whole issue with this is that 997.2 Turbo buyers are going to pay about $2k more base price than the 997.1 Turbo owners but with an engine which is inferior and is cheaper to build. Is this what allows Porsche to "get more from less"?; that's where the whole "efficiency" they talk about comes from IMHO... a substantially increased profit margin where you pay more for less and, conversely, they get more by giving buyers less.
I think you are very correct 'More for them less for us' . If porsche had applied the new cheaper engine and used the additional spread to make other modifications to the car (i.e. more carbon fiber etc) .. i would maybe understand. But hey, i guess they really need the money right now.
#119
08-12-2009, 07:38 AM
You guys are forgetting PDK, and this is NOT the same unit used in the Carrera. they developed a derived motor, and have spent several years getting this PDK right for the TT. Not exactly the cheap way out IMO.
Frankly I don't see what the big deal is. The Turbo DOES NOT NEED a GT1 block. It is turbocharged. Making a small turbo engine with today's technology is like nothing. Supra, Evo, GT-R etc. all have excellent motors, two of which capable of lots of power. Strong Block, forged internals is about all you need. The GT1 block was very strong, but limited in it's capabilities, no DFI and heavy. The sacrifice cannot be overlooked in the N/A GT3, but this is a turbo we are talking about.
PDK is not for me, unless it's a show/date/cruise car anyways. So I'm neutral on the subject, I just think too much is being made of the GT1 block when it comes to the Turbo. Porsche can easily make another capable FI motor. Look at the Cayenne TT, peice of cake.
Frankly I don't see what the big deal is. The Turbo DOES NOT NEED a GT1 block. It is turbocharged. Making a small turbo engine with today's technology is like nothing. Supra, Evo, GT-R etc. all have excellent motors, two of which capable of lots of power. Strong Block, forged internals is about all you need. The GT1 block was very strong, but limited in it's capabilities, no DFI and heavy. The sacrifice cannot be overlooked in the N/A GT3, but this is a turbo we are talking about.
PDK is not for me, unless it's a show/date/cruise car anyways. So I'm neutral on the subject, I just think too much is being made of the GT1 block when it comes to the Turbo. Porsche can easily make another capable FI motor. Look at the Cayenne TT, peice of cake.
