dealer sold me salvaged turbo no disclosure
#31
09-25-2009, 01:49 PM
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 232
Rep Power: 30 
salvaged 993
No as many other have asked I did not fly from NY to CA to do a PPI or look at the car. The whole point of buying a high end car like this from a reputable dealer with a large facility and somebody that is an expert in P cars is that I should not have to. The whole point is that they have the expert staff and knowledge to make sure a car is as clean and original as they represent it and garbage does not make it onto their showroom. In addition I deal with high end dealers all the time because I feel comfortable that even if something slips by them without bad intent, a bad car comes thru their dealership they have a business and reputation to protect so they do the right thing and buy the car back. If trusting this particular dealer as a business person as well as trusting their expert ability to look at a Porsche before selling it is a crime, then I am very guilty.
#32
09-25-2009, 02:16 PM
No as many other have asked I did not fly from NY to CA to do a PPI or look at the car. The whole point of buying a high end car like this from a reputable dealer with a large facility and somebody that is an expert in P cars is that I should not have to. The whole point is that they have the expert staff and knowledge to make sure a car is as clean and original as they represent it and garbage does not make it onto their showroom. In addition I deal with high end dealers all the time because I feel comfortable that even if something slips by them without bad intent, a bad car comes thru their dealership they have a business and reputation to protect so they do the right thing and buy the car back. If trusting this particular dealer as a business person as well as trusting their expert ability to look at a Porsche before selling it is a crime, then I am very guilty.
#33
09-25-2009, 04:53 PM
No Due Diligence on your part constitutes to a huge FAIL. Do your homework next time and you wont get burnt. A simple PPI at a Porsche dealer would have taken all the guess work out of it. You didnt have to leave NY either. I guess your time is worth more than the loss your going to take on the car.. Trusting a used car dealer is like trusting a politician. You deal with high end dealers all the time and you still are in the dark
That's very supportive of you ....I'm sure your response was very helpful to him.
Good luck on a quick resolution of the problem !
#34
09-25-2009, 04:56 PM
While not supportive, it's true. Why would you buy any car without a PPI being done?
#35
09-25-2009, 07:05 PM
I'm sure he doesnt need you geniuses to point that out to him
#36
09-25-2009, 07:19 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minneapolis, Mn
Age: 48
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Who cares about the PPI (He should have gotten one, but that's besides the point). It is AGAINST THE LAW for a dealer to sell a salvage title car without disclosing it.
This thread is on all Porsche forums. I can't beleive the dealer has still not corrected this to save face/their business.
This thread is on all Porsche forums. I can't beleive the dealer has still not corrected this to save face/their business.
#37
09-25-2009, 07:25 PM
Well you can't post something like that and not expect the obvious responses.
That being said, if the car came into the dealer with a clean title from the DMV, then there might not be much to go on. I thought I read that at least. Hard to reread the OP on my phone. Sounds like it would come down to the dealers word against his. Unless the dealer has an inspection form from when the vehicle came in.
That being said, if the car came into the dealer with a clean title from the DMV, then there might not be much to go on. I thought I read that at least. Hard to reread the OP on my phone. Sounds like it would come down to the dealers word against his. Unless the dealer has an inspection form from when the vehicle came in.
#38
09-26-2009, 02:11 AM
Well you can't post something like that and not expect the obvious responses.
That being said, if the car came into the dealer with a clean title from the DMV, then there might not be much to go on. I thought I read that at least. Hard to reread the OP on my phone. Sounds like it would come down to the dealers word against his. Unless the dealer has an inspection form from when the vehicle came in.
That being said, if the car came into the dealer with a clean title from the DMV, then there might not be much to go on. I thought I read that at least. Hard to reread the OP on my phone. Sounds like it would come down to the dealers word against his. Unless the dealer has an inspection form from when the vehicle came in.
#39
09-26-2009, 06:29 AM
It seems to me an "expert" porsche reseller should not need a carfax to identify a car that has been so severly damaged as to requiring a salvage title?? Thus if Canepa says the car is perfect, shouldn't the buyer legally be able to trust their assessment?
#40
09-26-2009, 06:54 AM
If what you are saying is true, you will not neet to take him to court. His local attorney generals office will shut him down in less than 30 days for selling you a salvage title car and not disclosing it. Furthermore, the dealer cannot use the excuse that "when they got it, it was a clean title" as they are the one's that are supposed to do their due diligence on cars they take in and are the ones that are regulated by many consumer protection laws. Seriously, 1 letter from a good attorney should fix this issue for you.
#41
09-26-2009, 06:59 AM
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Location: Long Island, NY
Age: 62
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Not sure there is any legal ground to say a dealer's word should be enough. Courts usually fallback on 'buyer beware' in high end used car cases and a certain amont of due diligence could be considered the norm in a high end car transaction. Especially in the age of the internet when a simple carfax is seconds/clicks away. However, the dealer had to know the condition of the car, you know they did a carfax before obtaining the car. A complicated case, no doubt. The best scenario for all involved would be for the dealer to refund the buyer.
#42
09-26-2009, 04:10 PM
hey guyes i can't believe i know this guy and his father they lived across the street from me in santa cruz well pasatiempo. his dad was the lincoln mercury dealer in the 60s.
bruce had a small dealership across the street from dads old dealership which has been closed for years.last saw bruce at laguna seca historics some years ago. whata shock hope all turns out ok. he was a p car guy too
bruce had a small dealership across the street from dads old dealership which has been closed for years.last saw bruce at laguna seca historics some years ago. whata shock hope all turns out ok. he was a p car guy too
#43
09-26-2009, 04:32 PM
hey guyes i can't believe i know this guy and his father they lived across the street from me in santa cruz well pasatiempo. his dad was the lincoln mercury dealer in the 60s.
bruce had a small dealership across the street from dads old dealership which has been closed for years.last saw bruce at laguna seca historics some years ago. whata shock hope all turns out ok. he was a p car guy too
bruce had a small dealership across the street from dads old dealership which has been closed for years.last saw bruce at laguna seca historics some years ago. whata shock hope all turns out ok. he was a p car guy too
#44
09-26-2009, 04:41 PM
scott went to his site, looks like he has a bigger building than 5 or 10 years ago when i was in santa cruz. maybe our friend is not talking to bruce but a sales mgr...
#45
09-26-2009, 06:33 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Woodbridge Virginia
Posts: 510
Rep Power: 59 I recently purchased a 1996, 993 Turbo with 2670 miles. I have driven the car less than 100 miles since it was delivered to me within the past few weeks. The car was advertised as follows,
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from ******* to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from ******* to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)