997.2 Turbo vs GTR
#46
11-28-2009 | 05:59 PM
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Whereas 911's :
- Won Speed GT for the last several years until this year
- Won ALMS for 9 of 10 years vs all the engine layouts you mention
-Won Rolex for several years including beating tube frame purpose built cars.
The GT-R hasn't won jack and you dare criticize the 911 Chassis. You have to be kidding. The GT-R chassis itself is too fat, that's why they went to a series where they didn't have. GOTO racing's car is still 3400 lbs after being gutted.
- Won Speed GT for the last several years until this year
- Won ALMS for 9 of 10 years vs all the engine layouts you mention
-Won Rolex for several years including beating tube frame purpose built cars.
The GT-R hasn't won jack and you dare criticize the 911 Chassis. You have to be kidding. The GT-R chassis itself is too fat, that's why they went to a series where they didn't have. GOTO racing's car is still 3400 lbs after being gutted.
No, I pulled that from ACTUAL results, like the lightning lap for example, and from several users who've driven on both tires, and people who've driven on the R888's and SP600's back to back.
You can't compare the ring because several miles are straight line, so the tires have no effect therefore the differences will be different.
You lose.
You can't compare the ring because several miles are straight line, so the tires have no effect therefore the differences will be different.
You lose.
Oh no, I've lost, woah is me.
You know that your 3s/min claim is utter crap. Much like some guy on another forum who claimed ZR1 tires on a Z06 were good for 3s/min, meaning that the ZR1 was actually inferior to a Z06 on the same tyres. When brought into the hard light of day, you just won't get that improvement from a tyre and the 'ring results show that, over 122 corners. Largely straight indeed.
#47
11-28-2009 | 06:02 PM
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That might be a relevant point if you were comparing it to a GT3 but not so when comparing it to a 911 Turbo. The latter is plenty heavy and also uses a dual clutch transmission. Not that assessing road cars as endurance racers makes any sense. The overboost is only good for 1 lap, that's my point. The GTR can do at least 10 laps like that and probably more. The whole lack of endurance thing is very over-stated by people who can't see any other way to beat it. I think 10-20 laps is sufficient for a GT Coupe.
I'd say not by much given that the new one must already be packing 600hp to get from 60-100mph in 3.6s. Turbos must be damn near maxxed at that. Then you've got various 'new' items to consider like the non-GT1 block. The GTR block has already proven to be good for 1000hp, when not ran on Mobil 1 oil. The new 997 PDK is also in question.
The other point is that you can add power to a 911 but it won't necessarily improve lap times because the chassis is flawed. The GTR on the otherhand? Well just look at the Mines GTR. 1:49 on Fuji Speedway on street tyres. 7s quicker than stock. 997 GT3 Cup cars can't even do that on slicks:
2:55 to 4:47 = 1min52s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ_63FFJbIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MGC_kTDTH8
ppi-mines.com/
Face facts, you're way out-classed.
I'd say not by much given that the new one must already be packing 600hp to get from 60-100mph in 3.6s. Turbos must be damn near maxxed at that. Then you've got various 'new' items to consider like the non-GT1 block. The GTR block has already proven to be good for 1000hp, when not ran on Mobil 1 oil. The new 997 PDK is also in question.
The other point is that you can add power to a 911 but it won't necessarily improve lap times because the chassis is flawed. The GTR on the otherhand? Well just look at the Mines GTR. 1:49 on Fuji Speedway on street tyres. 7s quicker than stock. 997 GT3 Cup cars can't even do that on slicks:
2:55 to 4:47 = 1min52s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ_63FFJbIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MGC_kTDTH8
ppi-mines.com/
Face facts, you're way out-classed.
You don't know anything about the track configuration (grand prix circuit, or w/out chicane), and pick some random guy from a random search on the internet to use as a comparison. And you pick a lap from the beginning of a race in traffic before the tires are even warm.
In other words you have no clue what you're talking about.
Post of the year. (Worst)
The GT-R has always been outclassed, even by a base carrera. The GT-R chassis is NOTHING compared to a 911 in racing, because it hasn't won ONE professional race EVER! The Turbo is MUCH faster when you eliminate the gimmicks that make the GT-R fast (equalizing the dual clutch, and putting them on at least similar tires).
Last edited by GT3 Chuck; 11-29-2009 at 01:33 AM. Reason: embedded link
#48
11-28-2009 | 06:07 PM
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So by your math a Cup Car on slicks is only 4 secs faster than a stock GT-R?
You don't know anything about the track configuration (grand prix circuit, or w/out chicane), and pick some random guy from a random search on the internet to use as a comparison. And you pick a lap from the beginning of a race in traffic before the tires are even warm.
In other words you have no clue what you're talking about.
Post of the year. (Worst)
You don't know anything about the track configuration (grand prix circuit, or w/out chicane), and pick some random guy from a random search on the internet to use as a comparison. And you pick a lap from the beginning of a race in traffic before the tires are even warm.
In other words you have no clue what you're talking about.
Post of the year. (Worst)
Last edited by BD-; 11-28-2009 at 06:11 PM.
#49
11-28-2009 | 06:09 PM
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Yes, I dare criticise because it's inferior. The results are displayed everytime the two are tested side by side. We know the 997 Turbo is faster in a straightline but it can't keep up in the turns, even with one that's suspiciously 0.4s quicker between 120 and 160kph than another one that was tested. Stop beating a dead horse. Besides a manufacturer with real sporting success would have more F1 wins under their belt. You're not in the big league so don't make like you are. Squabbling in the lower categories for race wins.
[/b]
Oh no, I've lost, woah is me.
You know that your 3s/min claim is utter crap. Much like some guy on another forum who claimed ZR1 tires on a Z06 were good for 3s/min, meaning that the ZR1 was actually inferior to a Z06 on the same tyres. When brought into the hard light of day, you just won't get that improvement from a tyre and the 'ring results show that, over 122 corners. Largely straight indeed.
[/b]
Oh no, I've lost, woah is me.
You know that your 3s/min claim is utter crap. Much like some guy on another forum who claimed ZR1 tires on a Z06 were good for 3s/min, meaning that the ZR1 was actually inferior to a Z06 on the same tyres. When brought into the hard light of day, you just won't get that improvement from a tyre and the 'ring results show that, over 122 corners. Largely straight indeed.
Is that utter crap too?
You are making this too easy.
YOU LOSE!
#50
11-28-2009 | 06:15 PM
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This is getting more pathetic by the minute is you actually think a Stock GT-R is going within 4 seconds of a Cup Car.
You guys at least give me a good laugh. Thanks.
#51
11-28-2009 | 06:16 PM
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Um actually when Corvette's Test Driver Johnny Oconnell tested the Z06 at Road Atlanta prior to the Petit Lemans last years, he went 4 seconds faster with the Z06 on ZR-1 Tires. (1:33 to 1:37). And the differences are similar.
Is that utter crap too?
You are making this too easy.
YOU LOSE!
Is that utter crap too?
You are making this too easy.
YOU LOSE!
Maybe the LFA is just a Supra on Michelin Sport Cups.
#52
11-28-2009 | 06:17 PM
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Did you even watch the rest of the VIDEO???? They started from a stop, and the first lap isn't even at speed. Not only that is takes more than the opening lap to get slicks warm. And you picked a guy at the middle-back of the pack in amateur racing vs a pro driver in Mine's car.
This is getting more pathetic by the minute is you actually think a Stock GT-R is going within 4 seconds of a Cup Car.
You guys at least give me a good laugh. Thanks.
This is getting more pathetic by the minute is you actually think a Stock GT-R is going within 4 seconds of a Cup Car.
You guys at least give me a good laugh. Thanks.
#53
11-28-2009 | 06:25 PM
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I seem to remember that was sponsored by Michelin. How can anyone be so dumb as to believe that tyres make 4s/min or even 3s unless we're talking slicks. If the tyres were that good, GM wouldn't have wasted their time with the ZR1. The ZR1 is less than 3s/min faster than a Z06, so are you saying that a ZR1 is inferior to a Z06? It's amazing the crap people will believe. Magic tyres. Maybe the LFA is just a Supra on Michelin Sport Cups.
Maybe the LFA is just a Supra on Michelin Sport Cups.Street Tires to semi slicks is ~ 3seconds and Semi Slicks to full slicks is about 3s. You'd know that if you actually drove on them.
What we do know is that both the GT-R and ZR-1 Tires have the grip of Semi Slicks as they are hybrid tires. The GT-R Dunlops have proven that in back to back testing with R888's.
The Z06's weakest link is the tires, put it on ZR-1 tires and it would be as fast. The fastest stock ZR-1 1/4 mile is only a tenth (or less faster than the Z06). In back to back testing the ZR-1 has only been 2 seconds per lap quicker on better tires.
All of this has already been proven.
You lose.
#54
11-28-2009 | 06:28 PM
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Funny watching the fanboys grovel.
The GT-R needs R-comps to keep up with the Turbo on street tires. In fact the R8 would have beat the GT-R too if they were on equal tires. GT-R = overrated,
Dunlops = Underrated.
As I've said before it might as well be called the Dunlop/Bridgestone GT-R, because that's the only reason it's fast.
bye.
The GT-R needs R-comps to keep up with the Turbo on street tires. In fact the R8 would have beat the GT-R too if they were on equal tires. GT-R = overrated,
Dunlops = Underrated.
As I've said before it might as well be called the Dunlop/Bridgestone GT-R, because that's the only reason it's fast.
bye.
#55
11-28-2009 | 07:40 PM
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The GTR won the freaking comparo. You are too busy making excuses for why a factory spec GTR is faster than a turbo.
If I put Dunlops on my Lexus will that make it as faster than a turbo too?
Heavyfanboy... you are the master of convoluted excuses.
#56
11-28-2009 | 08:19 PM
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No it doesn't. This test shows that (according to this German magazine) stock for stock, the GT-R is better.
I reckon a Turbo on Pilot Sport Cups and ceramic brakes would be faster than the GT-R, but there's no way these two cars should even be that close in the first place: it shouldn't come down to tires.
You keep saying this, but do you have any real proof?
Is that car anything like the street car though? I don't think it is. The "poo classes" have more relevance to actual cars that you can buy and use on the street.
Brawn GP. Red Bull Racing. They had F1 wins last year, yet how does that translate to their road cars. Oh, wait. Nevermind.
Expensive for Porsche, maybe. Not for the customer.
The engine is in the right place in some respects. People have been saying it's in the wrong place for decades, yet rear-engined Porsches still keep getting faster.
I reckon a Turbo on Pilot Sport Cups and ceramic brakes would be faster than the GT-R, but there's no way these two cars should even be that close in the first place: it shouldn't come down to tires.
Originally Posted by BD-
At least the GT1 GTR is heading to compete at the top level rather than the poo classes.
Brawn GP. Red Bull Racing. They had F1 wins last year, yet how does that translate to their road cars. Oh, wait. Nevermind.
The engine is in the right place in some respects. People have been saying it's in the wrong place for decades, yet rear-engined Porsches still keep getting faster.
#57
11-28-2009 | 08:55 PM
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No it doesn't. This test shows that (according to this German magazine) stock for stock, the GT-R is better.
I reckon a Turbo on Pilot Sport Cups and ceramic brakes would be faster than the GT-R, but there's no way these two cars should even be that close in the first place: it shouldn't come down to tires.
I reckon a Turbo on Pilot Sport Cups and ceramic brakes would be faster than the GT-R, but there's no way these two cars should even be that close in the first place: it shouldn't come down to tires.
Disgraceful
#58
11-28-2009 | 09:27 PM
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If you like such a cheap car, by all means just buy it!
#59
11-28-2009 | 11:27 PM
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#60
11-29-2009 | 12:39 AM
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I can understand some kids coming to a dealership with a lowered 95 civic and a fart can getting that treatment; but really?!!? If you roll up with a turbo Porsche from any era and they don't just hand you the keys for a test drive without any question... Where do they come off doing that? That is just beyond silly. Just must have been who was at the dealer, I've had the same thing happen to me at the local Porsche dealer when I roll up in my dd Subaru Impreza. I show up and talk PCCBs and displacements, tire sizes and power outputs between 993s, 996s and 997s and I'm getting a test drive in the Pana 4s; show up a few weeks later and talk to a woman who don't know dick and I get the cold shoulder. And the gentleman tells me to come by as often as I like. You know who I'm going to give the commision to?