HELP with Bilsteins!!!
#196
03-10-2010 | 10:15 PM
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From: Baton Rouge
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If you want to send me a the shock I can have the metal shaft tested, I deal with aerospace / defense alloy supply and have the resources to run various tests on the metal.
A bad melt can lead to very brittle metal as can counterfeit replicas simply by cheap design. I've seen counterfeit jet engine blades, make no mistake $hit happens.
A bad melt can lead to very brittle metal as can counterfeit replicas simply by cheap design. I've seen counterfeit jet engine blades, make no mistake $hit happens.
#197
03-10-2010 | 10:18 PM
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I'm all ears if anyone can tell me what other installer error could have happened...obviously Bilstein's analysis of the "mystery washer" was wrong as the washer was on my drivers side shock! I watched the install, saw the bolts being torqued perfectly, etc.
#198
03-10-2010 | 10:41 PM
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#199
03-10-2010 | 10:44 PM
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For all you conspiracy theorists...
http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/misc..._statement.pdf
Above is the link thaw AWE provided to me of Bilsteins analysis of my original, passenger side broken coilover. Compare these pics to my attached pics...I will point out some things that do not make sense to me.
1. Notice their picture of my snapped rod (first page, right side picture) compared to my picture #1 and #3; anyone notice the upside down "V" pattern in their pic? Mine has no "V" pattern whatsoever!! It's completely straight!!!
2. Notice their picture of my same snapped rod (first page, left side pic, one with the washer screwed into the bottom) compared to my pic #2...notice their edge looks completely smooth?? Mine is completely jagged!
3. Notice their pic of my "tapered section of mount pin" (first pic, second page) and compare it to my picture #2, #3...the patterns in the metal look nothing alike! I, also, do not see the "flat surface worn into the top" as they describe.
AWE has told me these are, indeed, pictures of my broken shock. What do you guys think?
Above is the link thaw AWE provided to me of Bilsteins analysis of my original, passenger side broken coilover. Compare these pics to my attached pics...I will point out some things that do not make sense to me.
1. Notice their picture of my snapped rod (first page, right side picture) compared to my picture #1 and #3; anyone notice the upside down "V" pattern in their pic? Mine has no "V" pattern whatsoever!! It's completely straight!!!
2. Notice their picture of my same snapped rod (first page, left side pic, one with the washer screwed into the bottom) compared to my pic #2...notice their edge looks completely smooth?? Mine is completely jagged!
3. Notice their pic of my "tapered section of mount pin" (first pic, second page) and compare it to my picture #2, #3...the patterns in the metal look nothing alike! I, also, do not see the "flat surface worn into the top" as they describe.
AWE has told me these are, indeed, pictures of my broken shock. What do you guys think?
#200
03-10-2010 | 10:55 PM
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I have been following this thread since it appeared and it seems that the problem must lie with one of two possibilities: defective product or installer error. Bilstein has a good rep but maybe they got a bad batch of metal. On the other hand they sell a lot of product and one would think numerous other failures would show up. I know two things right now ... I would not use your installer and I wouldn't buy those shocks ... at least until you get this sorted out. You are lucky you weren't traveling at speed when either shock let go. Count your lucky stars and good luck figuring this all out.
#201
03-10-2010 | 11:08 PM
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Other Aftermarket Options
Only the Bilsteins look compatible with PASM...anyone have the Motons? I'm going to do a search, and am guessing to adjust the stiffness one would simply turn the know manually? Can this be done within a couple of minutes or so? The TPCRacing units look good too...but are just revalved Bilsteins and quite expensive at $5,900!!! (Same price as Motons). All ideas greatly appreciated as I'm guessing I'm not really going to get taken care of by Bilstein.
#202
03-10-2010 | 11:33 PM
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Only the Bilsteins look compatible with PASM...anyone have the Motons? I'm going to do a search, and am guessing to adjust the stiffness one would simply turn the know manually? Can this be done within a couple of minutes or so? The TPCRacing units look good too...but are just revalved Bilsteins and quite expensive at $5,900!!! (Same price as Motons). All ideas greatly appreciated as I'm guessing I'm not really going to get taken care of by Bilstein.
#203
03-11-2010 | 12:43 AM
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Sorry to hear that your situation is still not fixed. I personally feel that Bilstein should step up and make things right, but that's just my opinion. The damage seems too severe for just a missing washer to cause. Just get a set of KW V3's and call it a day. It's not PASM compatible, but it is really great street/track coilover.
#204
03-11-2010 | 02:12 AM
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I get a pop noise when I turn sharp left or right at low speeds. Never did find the cause but no ill effects. Perhaps your issue is the same but instead of popping back into the socket it snaps for some reason.
#208
03-11-2010 | 10:28 AM
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Derek,
Any thread that raises safety and concern level is important -- this one included and obviously is quoted in my Bilstein thread. First, I agree with you and others here, that Bilstein should provide the washer and should include clear warning. And material failure is always a possibility.
But.... let me get this straight, after NUMEROUS, ok maybe several
, comments that you need to use another installer, am I understanding this correctly, that you are still using the same guy? Please, please, PLEASE! Tell me it ain't so?
This is becoming a thread not just about safety, but what not to do and more importantly whom not to use during a Bilstein installation. We've heard from your tech throughout now, that he's correct and it's all Bilstein's fault. I think it would be great, for the sake of information exchange and for others who are reading, that other info is provided as well.
1. The Porsche tech, does he own a shop, or is he a tech from the local dealer? Specifically, how many Bilstein PSS10 on a 997 has he done and are those cars/customers known around the area, not collapsing?
2. Was the installation done at the dealership, in someone's shop with a license, or at your house?
3. The noise and the installer's test drive: was one done, and if so, why did he not notice the clunk noise that you noticed? Or did he notice and thought it was normal?
4. Your tech is still insisting that the washer was used the first time? "Several pictures" had been taken before the coilover was sent to Bilstein. Did he take a picture that shows the washer on the first failed side?
5. After the initial failure, were all 3 other coilovers pulled completely off the cars and inspected in your presence? Were there pictures taken of the driver's side, with washer on it, and not showing the wear mark? In other words, knowing that one side has failed, were you around to inspect with him, see with your own eyes :-), and do you have pictures of the other side showing the washer?
6. I hope you are not thinking of having him now adjusting your Moton?
Just kidding.
What a nightmare. Take care and drive safely.
Any thread that raises safety and concern level is important -- this one included and obviously is quoted in my Bilstein thread. First, I agree with you and others here, that Bilstein should provide the washer and should include clear warning. And material failure is always a possibility.
But.... let me get this straight, after NUMEROUS, ok maybe several
, comments that you need to use another installer, am I understanding this correctly, that you are still using the same guy? Please, please, PLEASE! Tell me it ain't so? This is becoming a thread not just about safety, but what not to do and more importantly whom not to use during a Bilstein installation. We've heard from your tech throughout now, that he's correct and it's all Bilstein's fault. I think it would be great, for the sake of information exchange and for others who are reading, that other info is provided as well.
1. The Porsche tech, does he own a shop, or is he a tech from the local dealer? Specifically, how many Bilstein PSS10 on a 997 has he done and are those cars/customers known around the area, not collapsing?
2. Was the installation done at the dealership, in someone's shop with a license, or at your house?
3. The noise and the installer's test drive: was one done, and if so, why did he not notice the clunk noise that you noticed? Or did he notice and thought it was normal?
4. Your tech is still insisting that the washer was used the first time? "Several pictures" had been taken before the coilover was sent to Bilstein. Did he take a picture that shows the washer on the first failed side?
5. After the initial failure, were all 3 other coilovers pulled completely off the cars and inspected in your presence? Were there pictures taken of the driver's side, with washer on it, and not showing the wear mark? In other words, knowing that one side has failed, were you around to inspect with him, see with your own eyes :-), and do you have pictures of the other side showing the washer?
6. I hope you are not thinking of having him now adjusting your Moton?
Just kidding. What a nightmare. Take care and drive safely.
Last edited by cannga; 03-11-2010 at 11:15 AM.
#209
03-11-2010 | 11:49 AM
Only the Bilsteins look compatible with PASM...anyone have the Motons? I'm going to do a search, and am guessing to adjust the stiffness one would simply turn the know manually? Can this be done within a couple of minutes or so? The TPCRacing units look good too...but are just revalved Bilsteins and quite expensive at $5,900!!! (Same price as Motons). All ideas greatly appreciated as I'm guessing I'm not really going to get taken care of by Bilstein.
We re-engineer the bilsteins and reprogram the PASM units... A bit more than just buying off the shelf parts.
Email me if you would like to discuss it further.
We also offer JRZ shocks and can do custom rates for them. We won the 24hrs of Daytona on JRZs and do lots of R&D for them.
#210
03-11-2010 | 12:24 PM
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Well...I received the car back today, after purchasing another passenger, front strut from Bilstein via AWE (Mike got me a really good deal as a "courtesy" for me)...drove the car home, washed it, went to dinner and the DRIVERS side shock broke in the EXACT SAME FASHION AS THE PASSENGER SIDE SHOCK!!! This is not a joke. My Porsche tech has always INSISTED that the magical, mystery "washer" was always on the passenger side shock (I cannot verify this because we just pulled the whole thing and shipped it to AWE) but I can now say with certainty the washer WAS on the drivers side unit that broke tonight! My tech was so upset when I called him, he left his family at dinner, got his tools, and drove over to the restaurant I was at, jacked up the car, and examined everything. I personally watched this whole process. He took his flashlight, shone it on the broken shaft and wanted me to look at it first before he wiggled it off the shaft. It was there plain as day. Here's what's ironic: this one broke in exactly the same fashion as the passenger side one originally...here are the similarities:
1. Washed the car
2. Backed it up with the steering wheel completely turned to the left (preparing to park)
3. Placed car in first gear, turned steering wheel completely to the right and began slowly pulling into parking spot
4. Heard the "pop" as I was slowing down to come to a complete stop and park.
I don't know what to think. I now know the washer was NOT the issue as Bilstein has said (I personally do not believe the pictures I received from them were of my ACTUAL broken shock...I will post comparison pictures in a minute for all you conspiracy theorists out there and let you guys decide). What do you all think? Is it possible these are fake Bilsteins? I've never heard of fakes, has anyone else? What else could be the problem?
1. Washed the car
2. Backed it up with the steering wheel completely turned to the left (preparing to park)
3. Placed car in first gear, turned steering wheel completely to the right and began slowly pulling into parking spot
4. Heard the "pop" as I was slowing down to come to a complete stop and park.
I don't know what to think. I now know the washer was NOT the issue as Bilstein has said (I personally do not believe the pictures I received from them were of my ACTUAL broken shock...I will post comparison pictures in a minute for all you conspiracy theorists out there and let you guys decide). What do you all think? Is it possible these are fake Bilsteins? I've never heard of fakes, has anyone else? What else could be the problem?
they still insist that this was an installation error....