HELP with Bilsteins!!!
#76
My guess is soft material missed by inspection, cut by CNC which doesn't report the material variation resulting in a ductile fracture. Ductile fracture is caused by the stresses exerted on the metal which are too great for the softness of the material, causing it to yield and actually work hardening the metal as it yields. Cracks from fatigue develop, and then these cracks spread rapidly through the metal until you have complete failure.
But its just a guess until someone puts that rod in for hardness measurement. As an example of range, mild steel is ~40,000 PSI tensile strength while hardened steel can be 7-8 times that hard. Too hard is too brittle (like glass) so the engineer must find the alloy and heat treatment with the properties required to achieve the required strength without excessive weight.
But its just a guess until someone puts that rod in for hardness measurement. As an example of range, mild steel is ~40,000 PSI tensile strength while hardened steel can be 7-8 times that hard. Too hard is too brittle (like glass) so the engineer must find the alloy and heat treatment with the properties required to achieve the required strength without excessive weight.
#78
Are those new?? The box looks like it's been around the block a few times.
#80
Maybe there's a way to get them "authenticated" and pass spec before you install them.
#81
On another note...I think there are dozens upon dozens of Bilstein users on this forum. This is the first mishap I've heard of. With exception of the drop links, they've been a rock solid coilover on and off the track. Not to mention Ruf, TechArt, TPC, and Cargraphic all use Bilstein Damptronics in their aftermarket solutions.
#82
If you mean 'authenticated' as in make sure they're really Bilsteins, I'm not concerned about that. As far as passing spec, how would one go about doing that? I'm not sure anyone could have predicted the OP's catastrophic failure just by inspection.
#83
I think drkbrent's issues happened right away. At least you'll know that the steel rod won't snap...consider them broken in.
On another note...I think there are dozens upon dozens of Bilstein users on this forum. This is the first mishap I've heard of. With exception of the drop links, they've been a rock solid coilover on and off the track. Not to mention Ruf, TechArt, TPC, and Cargraphic all use Bilstein Damptronics in their aftermarket solutions.
On another note...I think there are dozens upon dozens of Bilstein users on this forum. This is the first mishap I've heard of. With exception of the drop links, they've been a rock solid coilover on and off the track. Not to mention Ruf, TechArt, TPC, and Cargraphic all use Bilstein Damptronics in their aftermarket solutions.
But you are correct: we always tend to focus on the one or two isolated negative reports. I'm sure they're fine....
#84
My guess is soft material missed by inspection, cut by CNC which doesn't report the material variation resulting in a ductile fracture. Ductile fracture is caused by the stresses exerted on the metal which are too great for the softness of the material, causing it to yield and actually work hardening the metal as it yields. Cracks from fatigue develop, and then these cracks spread rapidly through the metal until you have complete failure.
But its just a guess until someone puts that rod in for hardness measurement. As an example of range, mild steel is ~40,000 PSI tensile strength while hardened steel can be 7-8 times that hard. Too hard is too brittle (like glass) so the engineer must find the alloy and heat treatment with the properties required to achieve the required strength without excessive weight.
But its just a guess until someone puts that rod in for hardness measurement. As an example of range, mild steel is ~40,000 PSI tensile strength while hardened steel can be 7-8 times that hard. Too hard is too brittle (like glass) so the engineer must find the alloy and heat treatment with the properties required to achieve the required strength without excessive weight.
You are discussing faulty material in a PROPERLY installed coilover -- which very well might be the case, but it might not.
Let me just play devil's advocate here for the sake & fun of discussion: What if the force was applied on the rod the way that it was not intended to be? Sideways instead of up and down the shaft, such as when something was loose and now the weight of the car falls on the shaft at an angle?
The closest example I could think of, since I am looking at one , is a chopstick. If you apply force ALONG the shaft, you could never break it. But turn the stick sideways and now bend it --> broken instantly with very little force.
I now am quite interested in what Bilstein has to say. For one, even assuming it is NOT a metal fatigue, I think this points out at least one or two faults on Bilstein part: vague installation manual that's only in German (?), and an installation procedure that is not idiot proof.
Last edited by cannga; 01-11-2010 at 07:49 PM.
#86
Man, my box looked TEN TIMES worse than that! I was so concerned at how rough the box looked that I almost called the vendor, but changed my mind after I opened the box. Maybe I should have, who knows?
#87
Something tells me you do this for a living?
You are discussing faulty material in a PROPERLY installed coilover -- which very well might be the case, but it might not.
Let me just play devil's advocate here for the sake & fun of discussion: What if the force was applied on the rod the way that it was not intended to be? Sideways instead of up and down the shaft, such as when something was loose and now the weight of the car falls on the shaft at an angle?
The closest example I could think of, since I am looking at one , is a chopstick. If you apply force ALONG the shaft, you could never break it. But turn the stick sideways and now bend it --> broken instantly with very little force.
I now am quite interested in what Bilstein has to say. For one, even assuming it is NOT a metal fatigue, I think this points out at least one or two faults on Bilstein part: vague installation manual that's only in German (?), and an installation procedure that is not idiot proof.
You are discussing faulty material in a PROPERLY installed coilover -- which very well might be the case, but it might not.
Let me just play devil's advocate here for the sake & fun of discussion: What if the force was applied on the rod the way that it was not intended to be? Sideways instead of up and down the shaft, such as when something was loose and now the weight of the car falls on the shaft at an angle?
The closest example I could think of, since I am looking at one , is a chopstick. If you apply force ALONG the shaft, you could never break it. But turn the stick sideways and now bend it --> broken instantly with very little force.
I now am quite interested in what Bilstein has to say. For one, even assuming it is NOT a metal fatigue, I think this points out at least one or two faults on Bilstein part: vague installation manual that's only in German (?), and an installation procedure that is not idiot proof.
#88
I think drkbrent's issues happened right away. At least you'll know that the steel rod won't snap...consider them broken in.
On another note...I think there are dozens upon dozens of Bilstein users on this forum. This is the first mishap I've heard of. With exception of the drop links, they've been a rock solid coilover on and off the track. Not to mention Ruf, TechArt, TPC, and Cargraphic all use Bilstein Damptronics in their aftermarket solutions.
On another note...I think there are dozens upon dozens of Bilstein users on this forum. This is the first mishap I've heard of. With exception of the drop links, they've been a rock solid coilover on and off the track. Not to mention Ruf, TechArt, TPC, and Cargraphic all use Bilstein Damptronics in their aftermarket solutions.
A google search pulls up some interesting literature about the company history . They have been around a long time and most of the reading was very positive however I also googled complaints was able to read as well.
So far I have them on two cars and have been very pleased . I can't help but feel a bit nervous seeing Derek's example . I have been trying to muster up the courage to do a one mile event and I'd like to go into it with no doubts.
#89
A google search pulls up some interesting literature about the company history . They have been around a long time and most of the reading was very positive however I also googled complaints was able to read as well.
So far I have them on two cars and have been very pleased . I can't help but feel a bit nervous seeing Derek's example . I have been trying to muster up the courage to do a one mile event and I'd like to go into it with no doubts.
So far I have them on two cars and have been very pleased . I can't help but feel a bit nervous seeing Derek's example . I have been trying to muster up the courage to do a one mile event and I'd like to go into it with no doubts.
#90
Now that we have discussed what could have gone wrong with Bilstein (faulty material, poor instruction manual, non idiot-proof installation), let's talk, I mean speculate about the tech. If I were an expert witness for Bilstein, I would concentrate on what you wrote in your very first post of this thread: "They have ***always*** had a little popping noise coming from the front (especially the one that is now screwed) but I just figured they were getting "broken in.""
So whatever the problem was, it probably started very early, and we cannot rule out that it might have started the moment your car left the shop. If (and only if) this is true, it would bring up my first problem with this installation:
1. If indeed the noise started that early, than it is possible the tech had not test driven the car adequately. I would think this is very much his responsibility.
If he didn't hear the noise, yet you heard "always," then perhaps he didn't test adequately. If you heard the noise and told him, and he said this was normal, that's even a BIGGER problem, for him. Did you ever ask him about this noise?
The noise also allows me to speculate LOL further about what could have gone wrong:
2. Inadequate tightening that was tight enough at first for alignment but worked itself loose over time? The popping noise is the top of the shaft moving around from the looseness?
3. Over tightening causing the top of the shaft to shear off partially? The popping nose is the shearing worsening over time?
Please take everything with a table size grain of salt; I am merely an amateur playing the speculating game. The more I look at your pictures, the more frightening they look!
Last edited by cannga; 01-11-2010 at 10:20 PM.