My car came with Champion Motorsport H&R Springs and an H&R sway bar..

I currently have the sway bar set to the middle front and rear. I owned a GTR and an M6, and both those cars had a really solid feel to them, my 997 with this setup still feels soft in general and leans a bit in curves.. It handles really well, but I dont get the stiff driver input that im looking for..

What other things along with the springs and sways can I do to give the suspension a more solid feel. I was thinking of setting the rear bar to full stiff and leaving the front in the middle. Perhaps do some bushing upgrades... Id like my setup to stay 50/50 street track. Im content with keeping a lowered spring setup, I just want to enhance it even more for better feedback and flat handeling.. I read someone something about "dog bones" bushing or something.. im still to new around here

Any suggestions?


Cheers

 

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ade-input.html

This is a good thread that will likely answer a bunch of your questions... Better to upgrade the car as a package rather than piecing together parts.

 

What you feel is commonly shared among Turbo owners, particularly the stock car.
For a stiffer and more sporty feel, the most common solution is Bilstein coilover plus anti-sway bar. Thread quoted by TPC is very good, but also have a look in the Bilstein threads in my signature.

Changing sway bar and stiffer bushing do not address the "problem" directly. For example, changing the relative roll stiffness of the car (what you're doing by stiffening the rear sway bar setting) makes the car oversteer more, and doesn't necessarily address the softness that you are feeling. What you need is a system with stiffer spring, like Bilstein, Moton, JRZ. For a 50/50 street/track car, Bilstein or its variants are perfect solution. (If you spend a lot of time at the track, then Moton, JRZ, etc. Remember there are always trade-offs to each solution.) Happy motoring!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...red-turbo.html
Warning: If the Turbo suspension feels perfect to you, stop reading now. My "dissertation" is subjective in nature and might be upsetting. For me, one troubling thing about the Turbo is that besides the tremendous power and torque, over the long run, it’s not a fun car to drive. The handling is a tad sloppy, IMO a result of the soft spring rates and the enigmatic PASM system. The steering is good but feels inferior to my 997 C2 in feel and feedback. My suspicion was confirmed after a test drive in the GT2: Porsche has elected to make the Turbo too much of a luxurious grand touring car. My baby feels like a Mercedes after a 35 mile drive in that incredible GT2; no kidding.

What I've done to my car so far:
1. Bilstein PSS10 with a height drop of 20mm.
2. Street GT3 alignment, meaning a change of front camber from -.4 to -1.2.
3. GMG anti-sway bar; set to full soft front, full stiff rear.
These are common and fairly conservative changes so I am not blazing a trail here. You are basically buying Bilstein’s vision of what a mostly street-use Turbo should feel like. Consider what they do for a living, this is not a bad place to start. Technically, with its mono-tube dampener and dual spring setup, the Bilstein PSS10 is an advanced design.

While the effect of the sway bar is subtle, the PSS10 brings significant and easily noticeable changes. Some of these changes were expected—the Bilstein is no doubt geared more towards performance and its spring rates AFAIK are close to those of the GT2/GT3 class Porsche, others came as a surprise.
........

 

You need to address the primary problem and that is the damping, aftermarket shocks (and even factory ones) soften over time and sag, especially lowering springs. You can put all the dog bones and control arms you want, but those will not change the soft feeling you have, and since you already have sway bars, that is the only other thing controlling the weight transfer of the car. Try them full stiff, next step is a stiffer spring or coilover.

 

then when you're done with sorting out the suspension/sways, try a GT2-spec alignment.

 

Try full soft front and full stiff rear, plus an aggressive alignment and see how it feels.

 

+1. Those are my settings on my RSS sway bars and I love it. Got rid of the understeer.

 

I have to agree with "cannga". I have the B16's on mine. Although I have only had it a very short while, I'm very impressed with the civility, the excellent feel and cornering. I have the H&R bars as well. I don't understand why this wasn't standard to begin with.

 

It sounds like you need a set of coilovers. I am not a fan of lowering springs. For a 50/50 setup, I suggest PSS10's. I had JRZ's in my car thinking I was going to get in a bunch of track days, but the car has only seen the track twice. The handling characteristics of the JRZ's are awesome, but you do give up the ride comfort (ALL OF IT! ). It's a rough ride for the streets. I recently went with the KW V3 coilovers and I find it to be a great compromise between the stock and JRZ setup. I think the KW's are more track oriented than the PSS10, but still compliant enough for me on the streets. Don't get me wrong, it's still a stiff ride, just not as bone jarring as my JRZ's were.

Once you get a good set of coilovers in the car, it will definitely address your issues. Of course, you need a proper alignment and corner weight done as well. Since you already have sway bars, I suggest you set the rears at stiff and fronts at soft. This addresses a lot of the understeer in the car.

Also a set of toe links really helps as well. If you go with some aftermarket top hats (solid mounts), you can get more camber adjustment as well as sharper turn ins. The compromise here is added road noise in the cabin. Lot's of pros and cons to consider in every suspension mod. Just keep in mind that when you add performance, you usually have to give up some comfort.

 

To echo everyone else go with a set of coilovers.

I would also throw in the adjustable rear toe links for proper toe otherwise your rear tires will wear twice as fast (on the inside). So its a small investment considering the cost of a set of rears is $600+.

Got the bilstiens, gmg sways, rear toe links on mine, with a proper alignment car feels great.

 

I agree that setting the sways stiffer decreases body roll and increases overall rigidity however I know the opposite to be true regarding front and rear sways. That is DECREASING a rear will INCREASE OVERSTEER whilst increasing will INCREASE UNDERSTEER...which is something you may not want burrowing into a corner like a sled...

 

false

 

I am pretty sure that stiffening up the rear and softening up the front decreases understeer.

 

There isn't an all inclusive applied theory as it all depends on BOTH Front and Rear size/settings and the strength/size of the sway and the specific car wheel torque rotation and differential bias..RWD limited slip differentials yes, locking differential positraction types NO...(BOTH REAR WHEEL DRIVEN yet experience different kinetic wheel movement affecting cornering compressed spring rates)....FWD cars are even MORE prone to understeer when increasing front sway bars stiffness or installing thicker gauge steel. This would also be true of F/AWD vehicles with a mostly FWD bias until sense of slip such as vehicles with Haldex (Audi VW Quattro,4Motion). Where as Torsen couplings are not as affected because of true AWD.
AWD are affected different...on an AWD w/ partial rear wheel bias the back end will be much more tail happy (oversteer) with a softer sway setting say @ 22mm than the front @ 25mm because weight shifts toward rear lateral traction. softer compression and higher traction on the inside free rotating wheel (such as the LSD locking differential)..with the front in a neutral setting (a 25mm position 2)because of the much higher vehicle rear weight (911 motor placement)prone to kick out tyres during hard cornering or throttle lift..though true other factors affect this just as much as does stiffer spring rate,strut dampners... THE 911 IS A 'REAR ENGINE' AWD REAR WEIGHT BIASED AUTOMOBILE..... front engine RWD leaf spring muscle car Chilton fix it books DO NOT apply here.

I have a friend who reduced his rear sway to a 19mm bar and had better success at out cornering acceleration in cup meets with his 993.
The holy grail of 911 neutral steer specifically on a 911 series P-car AWD Turbo I think could be better had with an all around softer setting as it would get better rear lateral grip and power slides around corners I think.

 

I AGREE, stiffening the front sway will make more understeer (on an AWD, FWD or RWD car).

You are making this WAY too complicate, but that first post is mis-information.

Without getting to complicated:

Stiffening rear sway makes more oversteer
Softening rear sway make more understeer

Vice versa for the front.