And you read the Porsche forum.

 

I think your suggestion that the GT-R is no faster than a 997S (when it clobbered one to the tune of ~4 seconds around Silverstone in same-day testing) would have even the most ardent Porsche fan scratching his head. Oh, and thanks for bringing up the 997S and the GT2. When you meant to exclude other cars in this thread (despite earlier asking "What other manufacturer does this?") on the basis that it would "dilute" the discussion, what you really meant is either
1) "the Porsche" in question is actually the 997S and GT2, or
2) nobody except yourself can bring up other cars into this discussion.
Clever!

Oh, and from the article you posted:
"After a full day driving it on the Nurburgring, the Autobahn and up and over numerous little German country roads we can easily say this is one car that was not over hyped. It is truly a world-class supercar on par with, if not just ahead of, the iconic Porsche Turbo. (They had a Porsche Turbo on hand, too, and we thought the GT-R felt better tied down.)"

And as your own article states, it's not an exact science. Just as Porsche's unnamed chassis engineer could extract 16 seconds from the 997.1 Turbo vs Sport Auto's finding, it's perfectly reasonable to expect 16 seconds between Nissan's best time with its own test driver who had driven thousands of laps in it, in a car for sure running at or near optimum condition, and with great weather, vs Porsche's engineers who (let's face it) have much less experience, in a car that was reportedly in crap condition, in unkown weather, unknown levels of traffic (Porsche almost always report their times during industry days while running in traffic) and more importantly ABSOLUTELY ZERO incentive to show the Nissan in a good light. If you are Porsche, are you going to come right out and say "Yeah, the GT-R is faster on our own home track. But our car is more expensive!"? C'mon, get real.
Notice that the times they report for the Scuderia (7:45) and the 599 (7:59) are slower than the times set by Horst von Saurma who has only 3 flying timed laps for the supertest. Yeah, I'm sure Porsche really tried. What next? Pepsi is better than Coke...because Pepsi's own survey said so!

And before you think I'm saying the Turbo isn't worth the price, you better think again.

 

[QUOTEI think your suggestion that the GT-R is no faster than a 997S ][/quote]

Guibo --
I said that the Porsche tests place it with the 997S at the ring time. Here is the link that the LI Nissan manager posted. look it up the times. (Carrera S went 7.50. Gtr went 7.54 with Porsche testing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nürburgring_lap_times

I also said that I favored independent testing.

 

And do you consider Porsche's figure for the GT-R "independent"? I think it's pretty clear that most independent testing of both the 997.2 S and 997.1 Turbo vs the GT-R have the GT-R faster than both around the 'Ring by quite some margin. Dispute that, if you can. And that GT-R used in the Silverstone test was a slug; the 997S practically beat it in the head-to-head 1/4 mile race.

 

No I don't. I feel that porsches figure is merely an eye opener reason to seek the truth. Don't you ? Or are you simply not willing to question anything that would raise uncertainty?

 

I have raced two gtr's at a time attack-one stockand one highly modded.. and i'll say it didnt it up to pretty for them in certain things and it didnt end pretty for me in certain things ( in the section i didnt care about ) ftw.

 

see sig

 

There is no disputing that a Nissan car did a 7.26 time . What is up for major dispute is whether that car is the same as a USA production car. It is also up for grabs whether any GTR can attain the impressive numbers and still adhere to the warranty compliance demands. also up for grabs --reliability. We have yet to discuss resale . Especially on voided warranty cars. Also up for grabs is the interview where launch control is explained as a snow feature , engine recalls in Europe .. The list is endless.

So many topics .

 

-just sayin

 

Where the f- did this come from? If you knew anything about me, you would know I doubted the GT-R could even approach Z06/Turbo levels of performance, given only its power and weight ratio. That was before the first tests hit the 'net and newsstands. But you can't ignore the wealth of data from numerous tracks the world over.
If you want to seek the truth about Nissan's times, you don't start with an apparently knackered car driven by a company with a vested interest in promoting its own vehicles at the expense of a competitor's in completely unknown conditions.

"It is also up for grabs whether any GTR can attain the impressive numbers and still adhere to the warranty compliance demands."
It's pretty clear from the language in Porsche's warranty clauses (and those of other manufacturers) that warranty coverage ends once the car hits the track, whether for competitive (timed) purposes or not. Any coverage offered is up to the dealer as a goodwill gesture. I thought we had already covered this...

 

[quote=Guibo;2727662]Where the f- did this come from? If you knew anything about me, you would know I doubted the GT-R could even approach Z06/Turbo levels of performance, given only its power and weight ratio. That was before the first tests hit the 'net and newsstands. But you can't ignore the wealth of data from numerous tracks the world over.
If you want to seek the truth about Nissan's times, you don't start with an apparently knackered car driven by a company with a vested interest in promoting its own vehicles at the expense of a competitor's in completely unknown conditions.

quote]

We agree then on this . Alas .. common ground

 

Porsche has its language as do all manufacturers but it's so secret that Nissan has made an extra effort to place the most restrictive and detailed warranty demands for its own benefit. In my opinion ... the disclosure waiver is a manufacturer admission that an anticipated problem is a distinct possibility. It links an owners signature to a potential denied claim. The owner has nothing to gain. In fact he has more at stake to lose being that he is not a technician , and signs the document at a time when his heart proclaims "I want the Gtr" and his decision making is thus cluttered with emotional reasoning.

 

So Nissan is being deceptive by ensuring that owners are more aware of conditions that could void the warranty compared to other manufacturers? Ok..
By the same logic, when you buy a Porsche and your salesperson asks you to initial/sign the portion where you acknowledge that the warranty provisions have been known to you, isn't that Porsche's admission that an anticipated problem is a distinct possibility? This links your signature to a potential denied claim. I'll ask you again: If Porsche thought their cars can handle track use as they clearly design and explicitly market them, why don't they stand behind their cars by striking out the track usage provision of the warranty coverage?
Remember, the lawsuit that was filed was settled. If Nissan can still draft such warranty exclusions, then it's probably a case of fault being found on both sides; some of those early owners whose transmissions failed admitted to launching their cars with VDC off (or only came clean after Nissan's diagnostics told the real story). There was even one 6speed member here who first claimed that he never launched the car, then he said he did, then he was apparently banned or silenced as a fraudster.

The real point you're missing is this: Harping on about one company's warranty coverage denial as a result of trying to match a timed record run on a racetrack is absurd when they pretty much all do this. This in no way points to "despicable tactics."

 

[quote=Guibo;2727678]So Nissan is being deceptive by ensuring that owners are more aware of conditions that could void the warranty compared to other manufacturers? Ok..
By the same logic, when you buy a Porsche and your salesperson asks you to initial/sign the portion where you acknowledge that the warranty provisions have been known to you, isn't that Porsche's admission that an anticipated problem is a distinct possibility? quote]

I signed NOTHING except a bill of sale receipt. Nissans disclosure form is not an "awareness" document .. it is a pledge of compliance to adhere to Nissan's detailed demands -- sealed with the owners signature . On his own car no less !!!

It was NOT even required by Nissan prior to model year 2010 on the Gtr.

 

This is a great debate on warranty guys but my moneys on the Porsche here. My own experience with Porsche is they have always come good with fixing issues in and even way out of the warranty period. Could you Nissan owners honestly keep a straight face and say that would ever happen with your Nissan? Hmm... NOT! I think thats what they mean when the say you get what you pay for. Agreed Nissan Gtr is a great value car initially but that may change depending on how you drive it and how long you own it .