996TT X50 or 997TT
#31
02-28-2010, 01:25 AM
And yes 996TT front end is I wouldn't say butt ugly.... but eh, yes you are right.
.
But you can't go wrong with either!!
#33
02-28-2010, 04:44 AM
Firstly ive never yet seen anyone buy a 996tt over a 997tt who had the money unless they wanted a lesser financial exposure in a car for a track hack. As a daily driver....never. Also never read anywhere that the 996tt is the better drive or the better car. Porsche marketing may well be biased but all the Journo opinions and mag reviews too....cmon....they all cant have been bought and paid for by Porsche 
. I know a number of guys that have moved from 996tt's to 997tt's and all say the 997tt is not just a little better but a LOT better ( the same way as i found the 997 when i moved from the 996). Then there's Porsche's nurburgring track test times between these two cars in stock trim. I understand you love your 996tt with a passion and no doubt the way you have it set up its an awsome car but youre arument that the 996tt is better than the 997tt is unsustainable in the real world so best not to waste energy on this. Also, weight is a moot point here. Just look at GTR....heavier again yet faster around a circuit. As said before in some of the earlier posts what we are talking here is a money issue, nothing more, nothing less.
. I know a number of guys that have moved from 996tt's to 997tt's and all say the 997tt is not just a little better but a LOT better ( the same way as i found the 997 when i moved from the 996). Then there's Porsche's nurburgring track test times between these two cars in stock trim. I understand you love your 996tt with a passion and no doubt the way you have it set up its an awsome car but youre arument that the 996tt is better than the 997tt is unsustainable in the real world so best not to waste energy on this. Also, weight is a moot point here. Just look at GTR....heavier again yet faster around a circuit. As said before in some of the earlier posts what we are talking here is a money issue, nothing more, nothing less.You definitely don't want to go to Nurburgring times as Porsche never even released a time for the 996 Turbo. Sport Auto did both and guess what, the 996 Turbo ran a 7:56 on PS2's while the 997 Turbo ran a 7:54 on Porsche spec sport Cups. This test would certainly suggest that the 996 TT is the faster car, considering it was on slower tires. And this was a base 996 TT, not an S. The 996 TTS ran .4 slower on autozeitung test track with a whole lot less straight line speed and lesser tires. If you look around at the lap times for the 997 TT, you'll find that on average it is around 1.5-2 seconds faster than the regular 996 TT (sometimes barely a second). Considering many tests for the 997 TT were done on MPSC and non of the 996 TT times were, and the 996 TT was down 70 hp and allegedly up in weight. You should be able to see where the 996 TT is still a better performance platform.
The 996 TT is not a better car, I think we've established that, but was built more with performance in mind than the 997 TT. The 996 TT never got a facelift, because it didn't need one, it was always at or towards the front of the pack. The 997.1 has just been downright embarrassing from that standpoint. Was not as big a step forward as the the C6Z from the C5Z, or SRT-10 from the GTS.
The 996 TT was better matched performance wise for it's generation, without a doubt. A leader.
#34
02-28-2010, 06:06 AM
Where has anyone compared the two cars? Most of what you see in the magazines is complaints about the 997 Turbo's handling (at least the 997.1).
You definitely don't want to go to Nurburgring times as Porsche never even released a time for the 996 Turbo. Sport Auto did both and guess what, the 996 Turbo ran a 7:56 on PS2's while the 997 Turbo ran a 7:54 on Porsche spec sport Cups. This test would certainly suggest that the 996 TT is the faster car, considering it was on slower tires. And this was a base 996 TT, not an S. The 996 TTS ran .4 slower on autozeitung test track with a whole lot less straight line speed and lesser tires. If you look around at the lap times for the 997 TT, you'll find that on average it is around 1.5-2 seconds faster than the regular 996 TT (sometimes barely a second). Considering many tests for the 997 TT were done on MPSC and non of the 996 TT times were, and the 996 TT was down 70 hp and allegedly up in weight. You should be able to see where the 996 TT is still a better performance platform.
The 996 TT is not a better car, I think we've established that, but was built more with performance in mind than the 997 TT. The 996 TT never got a facelift, because it didn't need one, it was always at or towards the front of the pack. The 997.1 has just been downright embarrassing from that standpoint. Was not as big a step forward as the the C6Z from the C5Z, or SRT-10 from the GTS.
The 996 TT was better matched performance wise for it's generation, without a doubt. A leader.
You definitely don't want to go to Nurburgring times as Porsche never even released a time for the 996 Turbo. Sport Auto did both and guess what, the 996 Turbo ran a 7:56 on PS2's while the 997 Turbo ran a 7:54 on Porsche spec sport Cups. This test would certainly suggest that the 996 TT is the faster car, considering it was on slower tires. And this was a base 996 TT, not an S. The 996 TTS ran .4 slower on autozeitung test track with a whole lot less straight line speed and lesser tires. If you look around at the lap times for the 997 TT, you'll find that on average it is around 1.5-2 seconds faster than the regular 996 TT (sometimes barely a second). Considering many tests for the 997 TT were done on MPSC and non of the 996 TT times were, and the 996 TT was down 70 hp and allegedly up in weight. You should be able to see where the 996 TT is still a better performance platform.
The 996 TT is not a better car, I think we've established that, but was built more with performance in mind than the 997 TT. The 996 TT never got a facelift, because it didn't need one, it was always at or towards the front of the pack. The 997.1 has just been downright embarrassing from that standpoint. Was not as big a step forward as the the C6Z from the C5Z, or SRT-10 from the GTS.
The 996 TT was better matched performance wise for it's generation, without a doubt. A leader.
#35
02-28-2010, 06:30 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Woodbridge Virginia
Posts: 510
Rep Power: 59 
Like I said in an earlier post, I just bought the regular 996tt for track use mostly so for me it was financial decision and I would agree with Speed, in almost all cases it will be financial taking the 996 over the 997. As far as a 996 GT2 I would take that any day over a standard 997tt because for me I prefer the 2 wheel drive experience and I like the lightweight of the car, the feel and driver feedback and the performance (my GT2 has run 10.8 at 130 mph in the 1/4 mile with nothing more than a tune and wastegate actuators as the only mods). I also don't agree with the interior remarks as I like the the looks of the 997 a bit better than the 996, but I like the 996 interior just fine.
#36
02-28-2010, 06:35 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Woodbridge Virginia
Posts: 510
Rep Power: 59
I love the looks of the 997 but I have to say I prefer the looks of the 2 996's in your pictures over it!
#37
03-01-2010, 10:34 AM
Wow, some of the replies to my query were so...arrogant. The one above is apparently from a moderator of this list; just hard to imagine really. I didn't want to bring aesthetics into the discussion because they're totally subjective. Similarly, I didn't want to bring cost into the discussion because only I know my financial situation. The fact is that whichever Turbo I buy I will pay cash, not that it's really anyone's business.
Personally, I think it goes without saying that the 997 is, at least to some degree, the "better" car. It should be as it's newer. What I'm trying to discern is where is it better & how much better is it? That's why the posts from you guys that have owned or at least driven both models extensively are important. Magazine articles are great and I've read a ton of them over the last several months, but sometimes it's hard to sort the facts from the marketing.
Thank you to the people on the list that tried to be helpful by giving me your shared experiences and keeping your posts on point. For the people that posted responses similar to the one above...well I'll just leave it at that.
#38
03-01-2010, 11:03 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bentonville, AR
Age: 54
Posts: 1,184
Rep Power: 87
I have a stock 03 X50. It is a wonderful car! If I was going to mod I would choose the X50, the $ difference alone will allow you to make it a Beast! The inside comforts are no comparison, the X50 is dated compared to the 997. The creature comforts in the 997 are modern and better thought out. If $ is no object in buying the car and you are going to keep them stock, the 997 all the way.<O
</O
I will say this on behalf of the X50, there wasn't that many made. The $17,000 option wasn't something that most people wanted to put in the car when for 1/2 that they could get it tuned, other mods, and ( even in 03 ) get way more HP for less $ then that. So there aren't that many around and it will be more sought after ( IMO ) years from now over a standard issue 997. It is something to consider if you are going to keep it a long time.
edit P.S.
You might consider the actual engine. At some point, not sure what year, I am told the 997 went to a solid case. The X50 has the split case and ( IMO ) is a better engine. We know the 996 can be made to handle all kinds of HP under track conditions. It may not matter but I thought you might want to know, you may already?
<O</O
</OI will say this on behalf of the X50, there wasn't that many made. The $17,000 option wasn't something that most people wanted to put in the car when for 1/2 that they could get it tuned, other mods, and ( even in 03 ) get way more HP for less $ then that. So there aren't that many around and it will be more sought after ( IMO ) years from now over a standard issue 997. It is something to consider if you are going to keep it a long time.
edit P.S.
You might consider the actual engine. At some point, not sure what year, I am told the 997 went to a solid case. The X50 has the split case and ( IMO ) is a better engine. We know the 996 can be made to handle all kinds of HP under track conditions. It may not matter but I thought you might want to know, you may already?
<O
</O
Last edited by Hogapalooza; 03-01-2010 at 11:16 AM.
#39
03-01-2010, 11:56 AM
Registered User
Where has anyone compared the two cars? Most of what you see in the magazines is complaints about the 997 Turbo's handling (at least the 997.1).
You definitely don't want to go to Nurburgring times as Porsche never even released a time for the 996 Turbo. Sport Auto did both and guess what, the 996 Turbo ran a 7:56 on PS2's while the 997 Turbo ran a 7:54 on Porsche spec sport Cups. This test would certainly suggest that the 996 TT is the faster car, considering it was on slower tires. And this was a base 996 TT, not an S. The 996 TTS ran .4 slower on autozeitung test track with a whole lot less straight line speed and lesser tires. If you look around at the lap times for the 997 TT, you'll find that on average it is around 1.5-2 seconds faster than the regular 996 TT (sometimes barely a second). Considering many tests for the 997 TT were done on MPSC and non of the 996 TT times were, and the 996 TT was down 70 hp and allegedly up in weight. You should be able to see where the 996 TT is still a better performance platform.
The 996 TT is not a better car, I think we've established that, but was built more with performance in mind than the 997 TT. The 996 TT never got a facelift, because it didn't need one, it was always at or towards the front of the pack. The 997.1 has just been downright embarrassing from that standpoint. Was not as big a step forward as the the C6Z from the C5Z, or SRT-10 from the GTS.
The 996 TT was better matched performance wise for it's generation, without a doubt. A leader.
You definitely don't want to go to Nurburgring times as Porsche never even released a time for the 996 Turbo. Sport Auto did both and guess what, the 996 Turbo ran a 7:56 on PS2's while the 997 Turbo ran a 7:54 on Porsche spec sport Cups. This test would certainly suggest that the 996 TT is the faster car, considering it was on slower tires. And this was a base 996 TT, not an S. The 996 TTS ran .4 slower on autozeitung test track with a whole lot less straight line speed and lesser tires. If you look around at the lap times for the 997 TT, you'll find that on average it is around 1.5-2 seconds faster than the regular 996 TT (sometimes barely a second). Considering many tests for the 997 TT were done on MPSC and non of the 996 TT times were, and the 996 TT was down 70 hp and allegedly up in weight. You should be able to see where the 996 TT is still a better performance platform.
The 996 TT is not a better car, I think we've established that, but was built more with performance in mind than the 997 TT. The 996 TT never got a facelift, because it didn't need one, it was always at or towards the front of the pack. The 997.1 has just been downright embarrassing from that standpoint. Was not as big a step forward as the the C6Z from the C5Z, or SRT-10 from the GTS.
The 996 TT was better matched performance wise for it's generation, without a doubt. A leader.
Wow, some of the replies to my query were so...arrogant. The one above is apparently from a moderator of this list; just hard to imagine really. I didn't want to bring aesthetics into the discussion because they're totally subjective. Similarly, I didn't want to bring cost into the discussion because only I know my financial situation. The fact is that whichever Turbo I buy I will pay cash, not that it's really anyone's business.
Personally, I think it goes without saying that the 997 is, at least to some degree, the "better" car. It should be as it's newer. What I'm trying to discern is where is it better & how much better is it? That's why the posts from you guys that have owned or at least driven both models extensively are important. Magazine articles are great and I've read a ton of them over the last several months, but sometimes it's hard to sort the facts from the marketing.
Thank you to the people on the list that tried to be helpful by giving me your shared experiences and keeping your posts on point. For the people that posted responses similar to the one above...well I'll just leave it at that.
Personally, I think it goes without saying that the 997 is, at least to some degree, the "better" car. It should be as it's newer. What I'm trying to discern is where is it better & how much better is it? That's why the posts from you guys that have owned or at least driven both models extensively are important. Magazine articles are great and I've read a ton of them over the last several months, but sometimes it's hard to sort the facts from the marketing.
Thank you to the people on the list that tried to be helpful by giving me your shared experiences and keeping your posts on point. For the people that posted responses similar to the one above...well I'll just leave it at that.
#41
03-01-2010, 12:12 PM
Wow, some of the replies to my query were so...arrogant. The one above is apparently from a moderator of this list; just hard to imagine really. I didn't want to bring aesthetics into the discussion because they're totally subjective. Similarly, I didn't want to bring cost into the discussion because only I know my financial situation. The fact is that whichever Turbo I buy I will pay cash, not that it's really anyone's business.
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by PSTT03
In my opinion… people typically ask these kinds of questions because they want everything the 997TT has to offer for a 996TT price. Sorry to be up front but there is a significant gap between these two cars in so many ways. You should know this by now through reading posts, write ups, etc… I’m not short changing how great a 996TT is but there are many significant differences. There is a reason these cars are separated by 30-40k or more. What are you looking for in your description of “best” car? If you can truly afford a 997TT (IMHO) there is no reason to continue this discussion. A 997TT is not a “cost effective” car. Some may say neither is the 996TT buts it’s all relative to your situation.
ffice
ffice" /><o>
></o>>I realize you’re looking for differences in power, acceleration, handling, etc… Again, the articles and published material detail this. Both are extremely fast and handle well. You should drive both and park them next to each other. See how you feel about it… which you can see yourself owning and starring at everyday… if you don’t see/feel/experience 30-40k worth of difference then you’ll answer your own questions… Back then to reality…if you can afford a 997TT why even bother with the older model? Typically people who can afford a 997TT don’t by a 996TT instead because it was simply more cost effective. Sorry for being so honest…IMHO and no disrespect…people typically purchase a 996TT because it’s in his/her budget and then spend thousands attempting to make it look more like a 997TT…
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
I was in no way insinuating that your (personally) did not have the means to purchase either car. I apologize if you thought otherwise.
As far as the two cars are concerned, as you can see from my sig, I've owned both. Both were tuned, the 996TT by Protomotive, and my 997TT by Ruf.
The reason why I asked a day ago about what you wanted to do with the car is very simple. If you plan on making your car a tuned monster, you are better off with the 996TT for two reasons. There are more tested components available for the 996TT than the 997TT...and arguably, the cost of the tuning packages for the 996TT is lower than the 997TT. If you do intend to keep the car relatively stock or with a very mild tune, the 997TT is superior in every way. Better fit and finish, better interior quality, better AWD system (less interventions by PSM,) better power delivery with VTG turbochargers, and overall faster stock to stock, tune for tune.
- bob
Last edited by bbywu; 03-01-2010 at 01:26 PM.
#42
03-01-2010, 12:44 PM
+7 million
The reality is that 99.9% of people who own either one will never be able to approach the limits of what either car will do. If you're in that .1% that can, then more power to you. No offense, but given the numbers you're probably not, so save some money and get a 996 X50. I get compliments on the looks of my '04 constantly and the performance is stupendous. The only thing about the 997 I wouldn't mind having is the nicer interior, but at the end of the day I bought the car to drive and most of the time I'm only using the climate control and heated seats anyway! I rarely use the radio even. The exhaust note is awesome, especially in a tunnel (sorry to the other drivers I've deafened).
The reality is that 99.9% of people who own either one will never be able to approach the limits of what either car will do. If you're in that .1% that can, then more power to you. No offense, but given the numbers you're probably not, so save some money and get a 996 X50. I get compliments on the looks of my '04 constantly and the performance is stupendous. The only thing about the 997 I wouldn't mind having is the nicer interior, but at the end of the day I bought the car to drive and most of the time I'm only using the climate control and heated seats anyway! I rarely use the radio even. The exhaust note is awesome, especially in a tunnel (sorry to the other drivers I've deafened).
However, about the interior and I might be the only one here - call me; you can take a man out of the eighties but you can’t take the eighties out of a man, but I prefer the 996 interior. I like my women with curves, not flat with lots of straight lines. I especialy hate the 997 steering, the door handles and the horizontal air vents. And the stopwatch - please... But again, it’s just a personal taste.
Last edited by Terminator; 03-01-2010 at 12:48 PM.
#43
03-01-2010, 01:26 PM
The comment I made was summarizing the post that PSTT03 made, and not directed toward you. I was in no way insinuating that your (personally) did not have the means to purchase either car. I apologize if you thought otherwise.
As far as the two cars are concerned, as you can see from my sig, I've owned both. Both were tuned, the 996TT by Protomotive, and my 997TT by Ruf.
The reason why I asked a day ago about what you wanted to do with the car is very simple. If you plan on making your car a tuned monster, you are better off with the 996TT for two reasons. There are more tested components available for the 996TT than the 997TT...and arguably, the cost of the tuning packages for the 996TT is lower than the 997TT. If you do intend to keep the car relatively stock or with a very mild tune, the 997TT is superior in every way. Better fit and finish, better interior quality, better AWD system (less interventions by PSM,) better power delivery with VTG turbochargers, and overall faster stock to stock, tune for tune.
- bob
As far as the two cars are concerned, as you can see from my sig, I've owned both. Both were tuned, the 996TT by Protomotive, and my 997TT by Ruf.
The reason why I asked a day ago about what you wanted to do with the car is very simple. If you plan on making your car a tuned monster, you are better off with the 996TT for two reasons. There are more tested components available for the 996TT than the 997TT...and arguably, the cost of the tuning packages for the 996TT is lower than the 997TT. If you do intend to keep the car relatively stock or with a very mild tune, the 997TT is superior in every way. Better fit and finish, better interior quality, better AWD system (less interventions by PSM,) better power delivery with VTG turbochargers, and overall faster stock to stock, tune for tune.
- bob
I've already test driven a 996 TT, a 996 TT X50 & a 997 TT. I just haven't had the chance to drive them back to back & was really looking forward to doing so. There has always been at least a two week lapse between test drives. As rare as the X50s are, it may be awhile before I have another chance to do so should I decide to wait.
On the plus side, since I didn't go to Houston, I decided to visit a local Chevy dealer & drive a lightly used Z06. The car was an absolute blast to drive. It had excellent acceleration but seemed a little nose heavy. It had better handling than I expected but not great either IMO. The Porsche seems much more refined in just about every way. Although I wasn't seriously considering purchasing one, I officially checked the Vette off my list am now in pursuit of the perfect Porsche for me.
#44
03-01-2010, 01:38 PM
If you are still undecided, ignore the powerplant for both vehicles and focus on the change in the AWD system. It is probably the single most important change between the two cars.
The traction control system on the 997 uses a viscous clutch, that can open or close in just 100 milliseconds, to shunt power between front and rear axles. The ability to shift power between the front and rear axles is superior to the viscous coupling system on the 996.
The 997's PTM also consists of an electronically controlled center differential lock, which acticely controls torque distribution. The PTM control unit under the rear seat shelf evaluates wheel speeds independently lateral and longitudinal acceleration in relationship to steering angle. It works in conjunction with the optional rear differential lock. It is far less intrusive than the active system in the 996.
What this ultimately translates into is a more RWD biased 997, which is better equipped to manage slip than the 996. No suspension modification can overcome this difference in the two cars.
- bob
The traction control system on the 997 uses a viscous clutch, that can open or close in just 100 milliseconds, to shunt power between front and rear axles. The ability to shift power between the front and rear axles is superior to the viscous coupling system on the 996.
The 997's PTM also consists of an electronically controlled center differential lock, which acticely controls torque distribution. The PTM control unit under the rear seat shelf evaluates wheel speeds independently lateral and longitudinal acceleration in relationship to steering angle. It works in conjunction with the optional rear differential lock. It is far less intrusive than the active system in the 996.
What this ultimately translates into is a more RWD biased 997, which is better equipped to manage slip than the 996. No suspension modification can overcome this difference in the two cars.
- bob
#45
03-01-2010, 02:12 PM
I have a stock 03 X50. It is a wonderful car! If I was going to mod I would choose the X50, the $ difference alone will allow you to make it a Beast! The inside comforts are no comparison, the X50 is dated compared to the 997. The creature comforts in the 997 are modern and better thought out. If $ is no object in buying the car and you are going to keep them stock, the 997 all the way.<O</O
I will say this on behalf of the X50, there wasn't that many made. The $17,000 option wasn't something that most people wanted to put in the car when for 1/2 that they could get it tuned, other mods, and ( even in 03 ) get way more HP for less $ then that. So there aren't that many around and it will be more sought after ( IMO ) years from now over a standard issue 997. It is something to consider if you are going to keep it a long time.
edit P.S.
You might consider the actual engine. At some point, not sure what year, I am told the 997 went to a solid case. The X50 has the split case and ( IMO ) is a better engine. We know the 996 can be made to handle all kinds of HP under track conditions. It may not matter but I thought you might want to know, you may already?
<O</O
</OI will say this on behalf of the X50, there wasn't that many made. The $17,000 option wasn't something that most people wanted to put in the car when for 1/2 that they could get it tuned, other mods, and ( even in 03 ) get way more HP for less $ then that. So there aren't that many around and it will be more sought after ( IMO ) years from now over a standard issue 997. It is something to consider if you are going to keep it a long time.
edit P.S.
You might consider the actual engine. At some point, not sure what year, I am told the 997 went to a solid case. The X50 has the split case and ( IMO ) is a better engine. We know the 996 can be made to handle all kinds of HP under track conditions. It may not matter but I thought you might want to know, you may already?
<O
</O