Which are the five lightest wheels for the 997 turbo?
#166
03-20-2011, 06:17 PM
650kg is 1430 lbs for each rear wheel. The Turbo weighs about 3600 with 60% or so in the rear. The actual rear load is therefore about 1100 lbs per wheel. The actual front load is about 700 lbs per wheel.
So, there is a built in 25% load headroom. Then, factor in that the TUV tests the wheels at FAR Higher than the rated load and you will have no worries about strength or durability.
#167
03-20-2011, 08:23 PM
OK, let's do some math. 425 kg is 935 lbs per front wheel.
650kg is 1430 lbs for each rear wheel. The Turbo weighs about 3600 with 60% or so in the rear. The actual rear load is therefore about 1100 lbs per wheel. The actual front load is about 700 lbs per wheel.
So, there is a built in 25% load headroom. Then, factor in that the TUV tests the wheels at FAR Higher than the rated load and you will have no worries about strength or durability.
650kg is 1430 lbs for each rear wheel. The Turbo weighs about 3600 with 60% or so in the rear. The actual rear load is therefore about 1100 lbs per wheel. The actual front load is about 700 lbs per wheel.
So, there is a built in 25% load headroom. Then, factor in that the TUV tests the wheels at FAR Higher than the rated load and you will have no worries about strength or durability.
#168
03-20-2011, 09:01 PM
The Porsche Panamera weight is 4,000 lbs with weight distribution of 48/52 percent. Does that mean that theoretically based on a 25% headroom the load rating would be 545kg per front wheel and 590kg per rear wheel? If that's the case why are my M3 wheels rated at 690kg? Overrated?
Your M3 wheels are probably over-rated because the 5x120 bolt circle fits much heavier BMWs (5, 6 and 7 series). So the manufacturer engineered and rated them for heavier vehicles.
Few companies weight-optimize their BMW wheels for the lightest vehicles. They compromise by making a general BMW fitment. So the 3-series wheels are too heavy. But, business is business.
If you want a very light M3 wheel, you have to find a company that designs the wheels for just that car.
#169
03-21-2011, 08:03 AM
I think your TUV estimates for the Panamera are actually close. I can't share the exact numbers due to Copyright. However, the Panamera can be equipped with a towing package and that drives up the load rating somewhat.
Your M3 wheels are probably over-rated because the 5x120 bolt circle fits much heavier BMWs (5, 6 and 7 series). So the manufacturer engineered and rated them for heavier vehicles.
Few companies weight-optimize their BMW wheels for the lightest vehicles. They compromise by making a general BMW fitment. So the 3-series wheels are too heavy. But, business is business.
If you want a very light M3 wheel, you have to find a company that designs the wheels for just that car.
Your M3 wheels are probably over-rated because the 5x120 bolt circle fits much heavier BMWs (5, 6 and 7 series). So the manufacturer engineered and rated them for heavier vehicles.
Few companies weight-optimize their BMW wheels for the lightest vehicles. They compromise by making a general BMW fitment. So the 3-series wheels are too heavy. But, business is business.
If you want a very light M3 wheel, you have to find a company that designs the wheels for just that car.
#170
03-21-2011, 08:41 AM
Our wheels pass the TUV standards for the E92 M3. Front weight (19x9)is about 7.5 kg and the rear (19x10.5) is about 8.3 kg. Weights vary depending on offset and finish.
#171
03-21-2011, 02:44 PM
My Dymags were 5.4kgs for the front and around 6 if i remember correctly for the rear. Of course in reality you have to add the effect of the wheel weighing literally almost nothing and all the weight is in the centre. And finally the effect of the carbon slightly deforming under cornering which adds quite a bit of grip.
The dymags are the very best mod i did in my (very) heavily modded car..
#172
03-21-2011, 02:57 PM
. I was surprised to hear !I am surprised so many so-called experts are obsessed with putting the lightest possible wheels on their car.
The lighter they are the less dense they are and less capable of handling the requirements of daily driving....or the rigors of regular track use.
Yes, you will brake faster and handle better but there will more vibrations and they won't last as long as a stronger wheel.
Most of us are not tracking our cars meaning they are chasing light wheels because of a pissing contest.
I have forged wheels on my car but the barrels are bouble rolled for extra strength and the face is thick. They weigh approximately 28 lbs and I'm happy about that. I have hit curbs and potholes and they take a licking and keep on ticking.
#173
03-21-2011, 03:02 PM
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my buddies across the pond in the uk who run a subaru time attack team, have horrible reviews on the dymag's. The quality is horrible, they had problems with the wheels and not just cosmetic. They also decided against running them as they just kept breaking as well and the customer/race support was pretty much non existent.
#174
03-21-2011, 03:03 PM
sorry was just going through this thread for the first time and had to correct this.
My Dymags were 5.4kgs for the front and around 6 if i remember correctly for the rear. Of course in reality you have to add the effect of the wheel weighing literally almost nothing and all the weight is in the centre. And finally the effect of the carbon slightly deforming under cornering which adds quite a bit of grip.
The dymags are the very best mod i did in my (very) heavily modded car..
My Dymags were 5.4kgs for the front and around 6 if i remember correctly for the rear. Of course in reality you have to add the effect of the wheel weighing literally almost nothing and all the weight is in the centre. And finally the effect of the carbon slightly deforming under cornering which adds quite a bit of grip.
The dymags are the very best mod i did in my (very) heavily modded car..
This is the accurate Dymag weight data, straight from the importer, Bill Koenig:
Dymag Carbon= 7.5kg & 9.12kg (16.5 & 20.05 Lbs) 19x8.5 front and 19x11.5 rear. Very similar to the other carbon manufacturers as well.
As to the Carbon deforming, nothing could be further from the truth. The Dymag carbon structure is stiff beyond belief and has virtually no flex. Thus, all the deformation loads were borne by the bolt-in center. This resulted in some spectacular failures. And chronic air leakage around the center fastening system.
Last edited by Tech1_Mike; 03-21-2011 at 03:28 PM.
#175
03-21-2011, 03:21 PM
I'm not surprised to hear someone had issues.
I am surprised so many so-called experts are obsessed with putting the lightest possible wheels on their car.
The lighter they are the less dense they are and less capable of handling the requirements of daily driving....or the rigors of regular track use.
Yes, you will brake faster and handle better but there will more vibrations and they won't last as long as a stronger wheel.
Most of us are not tracking our cars meaning they are chasing light wheels because of a pissing contest.
I have forged wheels on my car but the barrels are bouble rolled for extra strength and the face is thick. They weigh approximately 28 lbs and I'm happy about that. I have hit curbs and potholes and they take a licking and keep on ticking.
I am surprised so many so-called experts are obsessed with putting the lightest possible wheels on their car.
The lighter they are the less dense they are and less capable of handling the requirements of daily driving....or the rigors of regular track use.
Yes, you will brake faster and handle better but there will more vibrations and they won't last as long as a stronger wheel.
Most of us are not tracking our cars meaning they are chasing light wheels because of a pissing contest.
I have forged wheels on my car but the barrels are bouble rolled for extra strength and the face is thick. They weigh approximately 28 lbs and I'm happy about that. I have hit curbs and potholes and they take a licking and keep on ticking.
The whole issue is engineering. A well engineered forged wheel that is weight optimized for the vehicle and passes the TUV homologation standards will last the life of the car. OEM's rarely use them because they cost A LOT more than a cast wheel. The advantages are enormous. Our Tech1 fitment for the Porsche GT3, for example, reduces unsprung weight by 30 lbs!!!!. And they are warranted for the life of the vehicle.
You just need to be careful who you buy from.
#176
03-21-2011, 04:48 PM
#177
03-21-2011, 05:59 PM
Numbers like the ones you suggest are urban legends.
This is the accurate Dymag weight data, straight from the importer, Bill Koenig:
Dymag Carbon= 7.5kg & 9.12kg (16.5 & 20.05 Lbs) 19x8.5 front and 19x11.5 rear. Very similar to the other carbon manufacturers as well.
As to the Carbon deforming, nothing could be further from the truth. The Dymag carbon structure is stiff beyond belief and has virtually no flex. Thus, all the deformation loads were borne by the bolt-in center. This resulted in some spectacular failures. And chronic air leakage around the center fastening system.
This is the accurate Dymag weight data, straight from the importer, Bill Koenig:
Dymag Carbon= 7.5kg & 9.12kg (16.5 & 20.05 Lbs) 19x8.5 front and 19x11.5 rear. Very similar to the other carbon manufacturers as well.
As to the Carbon deforming, nothing could be further from the truth. The Dymag carbon structure is stiff beyond belief and has virtually no flex. Thus, all the deformation loads were borne by the bolt-in center. This resulted in some spectacular failures. And chronic air leakage around the center fastening system.
As for the second re carbon bending etc this came from the MD of the company himself and explained the advantage they have on tracks.
Dont forget that there were a few generations that came with different materials, designs and .. weights.
I am just posting my extensive experience, i have tried almost every single suspension component available and the dymags were by far the one mod that made this heavy car feel like a GT3. And were worth 1-1.5 secs at Paul Ricard vs stock
#178
03-21-2011, 06:05 PM
Re the first comment my mechanic had weighted them and that was the result without the bolts & sensors. I guess i ll have to do it again myself. (PS. the stock rear ones are around 11-11.5kgs, the dymags feel like feathers compared to them!)
As for the second re carbon bending etc this came from the MD of the company himself and explained the advantage they have on tracks.
Dont forget that there were a few generations that came with different materials, designs and .. weights. This "bending" can expalin failures of earlier models on cars that had a lot of negative camber..
I am just posting my extensive experience, i have tried almost every single suspension component available and the dymags were by far the one mod that made this heavy car feel more like a GT3. And they were worth 1-1.5 secs at Paul Ricard vs stock
As for the second re carbon bending etc this came from the MD of the company himself and explained the advantage they have on tracks.
Dont forget that there were a few generations that came with different materials, designs and .. weights. This "bending" can expalin failures of earlier models on cars that had a lot of negative camber..
I am just posting my extensive experience, i have tried almost every single suspension component available and the dymags were by far the one mod that made this heavy car feel more like a GT3. And they were worth 1-1.5 secs at Paul Ricard vs stock
As for leaking, yes they can leak depending on the generation. The last generations had different bolts and if you follow the exact procedure of dismantling and assembling then they do not leak. (assuming you have not damaged the bolts in the process). All the above mean of course that they are not for everyone but for those who have tried them and have the patience to maintain them properly they are a piece of art that transform the car.
No affiliation to the company whatsoever and not car professional in anyway shape or form..
#179
03-21-2011, 06:09 PM
Please find the dymag weights attached. Every wheel is 2kg until is put on a scale. The weights seem to go with Mike's estimate as well.
#180
03-21-2011, 10:16 PM
Yikes! Lighter wheels are NOT less dense. They don't vibrate more and they are not somehow less durable than heavier wheels. They also DO NOT cause high speed instability. That's utter nonsense.
The whole issue is engineering. A well engineered forged wheel that is weight optimized for the vehicle and passes the TUV homologation standards will last the life of the car. OEM's rarely use them because they cost A LOT more than a cast wheel. The advantages are enormous. Our Tech1 fitment for the Porsche GT3, for example, reduces unsprung weight by 30 lbs!!!!. And they are warranted for the life of the vehicle.
You just need to be careful who you buy from.
The whole issue is engineering. A well engineered forged wheel that is weight optimized for the vehicle and passes the TUV homologation standards will last the life of the car. OEM's rarely use them because they cost A LOT more than a cast wheel. The advantages are enormous. Our Tech1 fitment for the Porsche GT3, for example, reduces unsprung weight by 30 lbs!!!!. And they are warranted for the life of the vehicle.
You just need to be careful who you buy from.
I have been modding over 20 years. In that time I've seen lots of bent and broken wheels. More of them are forged. In fact, I've never bent or dented a cast wheel. Every forged wheel I've had suffered some type of issue...except the ones I have now. This is fact from experience....cast wheels are stronger than forged. Forged would be way stronger with equal density and weight of cast.