Which are the five lightest wheels for the 997 turbo?
#197
03-24-2011, 01:34 AM
It seems you have to do some research on material properties and engineering to understand this. Mike has done his best to explain it to you but you seem to be stuck on your own misconceptions. Lighter is not weaker. Heavier doesn't mean stronger.
Aluminum is aluminum. It cannot be compressed and its density cannot be changed (relatively). A356 and 6061-T6 have very close densities but very FAR tensile and yield strengths. Forged 6061-T6 has almost twice the strength of A356. A square inch of 6061-T6 can hold twice as much "mass" than A356. Other factors are involved, of course.
Why cast wheels tend to be "stronger", in your misconception, than forged wheels is because:
1. Cast wheels are typically OEM wheels that are engineered with a very large headroom for disaster.
2. Cast wheel are typically smaller sizes than forged wheels since people tend to be afraid to run larger diameter of non-forged wheels for fear of bending them (ironic huh?)
3. Cast wheel, being smaller in general, tend to use larger tire profiles than forged wheels, having more impact absorption.
4. When you bend/crack a cast $300 wheel you won't make the same spectacle you would if you bend your $1500 high end wheel so less publicity is done.
Now, go get a set of 20" cast wheels and run 20 or 25 series tires and report back to us.
Keep in mind though that the same wheel (same design), engineered the same and rated at the same load will have the same strength whether it is cast or forged.
At the end of the day engineering plays a very large role in wheel strength. Maybe you have had a share of bad luck with them. You mentioned a lot of wheel brands that are not known for their ultra-high quality either and most of them are 2PC/3PC that the term "forged" is used very loosely when describing them.
Aluminum is aluminum. It cannot be compressed and its density cannot be changed (relatively). A356 and 6061-T6 have very close densities but very FAR tensile and yield strengths. Forged 6061-T6 has almost twice the strength of A356. A square inch of 6061-T6 can hold twice as much "mass" than A356. Other factors are involved, of course.
Why cast wheels tend to be "stronger", in your misconception, than forged wheels is because:
1. Cast wheels are typically OEM wheels that are engineered with a very large headroom for disaster.
2. Cast wheel are typically smaller sizes than forged wheels since people tend to be afraid to run larger diameter of non-forged wheels for fear of bending them (ironic huh?)
3. Cast wheel, being smaller in general, tend to use larger tire profiles than forged wheels, having more impact absorption.
4. When you bend/crack a cast $300 wheel you won't make the same spectacle you would if you bend your $1500 high end wheel so less publicity is done.
Now, go get a set of 20" cast wheels and run 20 or 25 series tires and report back to us.
Keep in mind though that the same wheel (same design), engineered the same and rated at the same load will have the same strength whether it is cast or forged.
At the end of the day engineering plays a very large role in wheel strength. Maybe you have had a share of bad luck with them. You mentioned a lot of wheel brands that are not known for their ultra-high quality either and most of them are 2PC/3PC that the term "forged" is used very loosely when describing them.
#198
03-24-2011, 06:49 AM
It seems you have to do some research on material properties and engineering to understand this. Mike has done his best to explain it to you but you seem to be stuck on your own misconceptions. Lighter is not weaker. Heavier doesn't mean stronger.
Aluminum is aluminum. It cannot be compressed and its density cannot be changed (relatively). A356 and 6061-T6 have very close densities but very FAR tensile and yield strengths. Forged 6061-T6 has almost twice the strength of A356. A square inch of 6061-T6 can hold twice as much "mass" than A356. Other factors are involved, of course.
Why cast wheels tend to be "stronger", in your misconception, than forged wheels is because:
1. Cast wheels are typically OEM wheels that are engineered with a very large headroom for disaster.
2. Cast wheel are typically smaller sizes than forged wheels since people tend to be afraid to run larger diameter of non-forged wheels for fear of bending them (ironic huh?)
3. Cast wheel, being smaller in general, tend to use larger tire profiles than forged wheels, having more impact absorption.
4. When you bend/crack a cast $300 wheel you won't make the same spectacle you would if you bend your $1500 high end wheel so less publicity is done.
Now, go get a set of 20" cast wheels and run 20 or 25 series tires and report back to us.
Keep in mind though that the same wheel (same design), engineered the same and rated at the same load will have the same strength whether it is cast or forged.
At the end of the day engineering plays a very large role in wheel strength. Maybe you have had a share of bad luck with them. You mentioned a lot of wheel brands that are not known for their ultra-high quality either and most of them are 2PC/3PC that the term "forged" is used very loosely when describing them.
Aluminum is aluminum. It cannot be compressed and its density cannot be changed (relatively). A356 and 6061-T6 have very close densities but very FAR tensile and yield strengths. Forged 6061-T6 has almost twice the strength of A356. A square inch of 6061-T6 can hold twice as much "mass" than A356. Other factors are involved, of course.
Why cast wheels tend to be "stronger", in your misconception, than forged wheels is because:
1. Cast wheels are typically OEM wheels that are engineered with a very large headroom for disaster.
2. Cast wheel are typically smaller sizes than forged wheels since people tend to be afraid to run larger diameter of non-forged wheels for fear of bending them (ironic huh?)
3. Cast wheel, being smaller in general, tend to use larger tire profiles than forged wheels, having more impact absorption.
4. When you bend/crack a cast $300 wheel you won't make the same spectacle you would if you bend your $1500 high end wheel so less publicity is done.
Now, go get a set of 20" cast wheels and run 20 or 25 series tires and report back to us.
Keep in mind though that the same wheel (same design), engineered the same and rated at the same load will have the same strength whether it is cast or forged.
At the end of the day engineering plays a very large role in wheel strength. Maybe you have had a share of bad luck with them. You mentioned a lot of wheel brands that are not known for their ultra-high quality either and most of them are 2PC/3PC that the term "forged" is used very loosely when describing them.
for you.
#199
03-24-2011, 08:40 AM
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cyprus
Age: 41
Posts: 1,778
Rep Power: 110 
[quote=crimsone90;3157687]It seems you have to do some research on material properties and engineering to understand this. Mike has done his best to explain it to you but you seem to be stuck on your own misconceptions. Lighter is not weaker. Heavier doesn't mean stronger.
Aluminum is aluminum. It cannot be compressed and its density cannot be changed (relatively). A356 and 6061-T6 have very close densities but very FAR tensile and yield strengths. Forged 6061-T6 has almost twice the strength of A356. A square inch of 6061-T6 can hold twice as much "mass" than A356. Other factors are involved, of course.
Why cast wheels tend to be "stronger", in your misconception, than forged wheels is because:
1. Cast wheels are typically OEM wheels that are engineered with a very large headroom for disaster.
2. Cast wheel are typically smaller sizes than forged wheels since people tend to be afraid to run larger diameter of non-forged wheels for fear of bending them (ironic huh?)
3. Cast wheel, being smaller in general, tend to use larger tire profiles than forged wheels, having more impact absorption.
4. When you bend/crack a cast $300 wheel you won't make the same spectacle you would if you bend your $1500 high end wheel so less publicity is done.
Now, go get a set of 20" cast wheels and run 20 or 25 series tires and report back to us.
Keep in mind though that the same wheel (same design), engineered the same and rated at the same load will have the same strength whether it is cast or forged.
At the end of the day engineering plays a very large role in wheel strength. Maybe you have had a share of bad luck with them. You mentioned a lot of wheel brands that are not known for their ultra-high quality either and most of them are 2PC/3PC that the term "forged" is used very loosely when describing them.[/ quote]
nice post +1
Aluminum is aluminum. It cannot be compressed and its density cannot be changed (relatively). A356 and 6061-T6 have very close densities but very FAR tensile and yield strengths. Forged 6061-T6 has almost twice the strength of A356. A square inch of 6061-T6 can hold twice as much "mass" than A356. Other factors are involved, of course.
Why cast wheels tend to be "stronger", in your misconception, than forged wheels is because:
1. Cast wheels are typically OEM wheels that are engineered with a very large headroom for disaster.
2. Cast wheel are typically smaller sizes than forged wheels since people tend to be afraid to run larger diameter of non-forged wheels for fear of bending them (ironic huh?)
3. Cast wheel, being smaller in general, tend to use larger tire profiles than forged wheels, having more impact absorption.
4. When you bend/crack a cast $300 wheel you won't make the same spectacle you would if you bend your $1500 high end wheel so less publicity is done.
Now, go get a set of 20" cast wheels and run 20 or 25 series tires and report back to us.
Keep in mind though that the same wheel (same design), engineered the same and rated at the same load will have the same strength whether it is cast or forged.
At the end of the day engineering plays a very large role in wheel strength. Maybe you have had a share of bad luck with them. You mentioned a lot of wheel brands that are not known for their ultra-high quality either and most of them are 2PC/3PC that the term "forged" is used very loosely when describing them.[/ quote]
nice post +1
#200
03-24-2011, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ice350
I thought Carlsson Wheels were top quality but they bend and break easier than most any wheel out there. I had a set of Work wheels. They had a cast center and forged lip and barrel. The slightest touch bent the heck out of the lips. Same with Maya and Lowenhart. My current forged wheels are super strong because they have double rolled lips and barrels. Adds more weight but they are strong as heck. I have banged them several times and they still look good. No bends.
I am going to agree it has a lot to do with how its made. But my current wheels are heavier than most forged 20 in wheels....and worth it im my book. Screw that light weight stuff.
It seems you have to do some research on material properties and engineering to understand this. Mike has done his best to explain it to you but you seem to be stuck on your own misconceptions. Lighter is not weaker. Heavier doesn't mean stronger.
Aluminum is aluminum. It cannot be compressed and its density cannot be changed (relatively). A356 and 6061-T6 have very close densities but very FAR tensile and yield strengths. Forged 6061-T6 has almost twice the strength of A356. A square inch of 6061-T6 can hold twice as much "mass" than A356. Other factors are involved, of course.
Why cast wheels tend to be "stronger", in your misconception, than forged wheels is because:
1. Cast wheels are typically OEM wheels that are engineered with a very large headroom for disaster.
2. Cast wheel are typically smaller sizes than forged wheels since people tend to be afraid to run larger diameter of non-forged wheels for fear of bending them (ironic huh?)
3. Cast wheel, being smaller in general, tend to use larger tire profiles than forged wheels, having more impact absorption.
4. When you bend/crack a cast $300 wheel you won't make the same spectacle you would if you bend your $1500 high end wheel so less publicity is done.
Now, go get a set of 20" cast wheels and run 20 or 25 series tires and report back to us.
Keep in mind though that the same wheel (same design), engineered the same and rated at the same load will have the same strength whether it is cast or forged.
At the end of the day engineering plays a very large role in wheel strength. Maybe you have had a share of bad luck with them. You mentioned a lot of wheel brands that are not known for their ultra-high quality either and most of them are 2PC/3PC that the term "forged" is used very loosely when describing them.
Originally Posted by ice350
I thought Carlsson Wheels were top quality but they bend and break easier than most any wheel out there. I had a set of Work wheels. They had a cast center and forged lip and barrel. The slightest touch bent the heck out of the lips. Same with Maya and Lowenhart. My current forged wheels are super strong because they have double rolled lips and barrels. Adds more weight but they are strong as heck. I have banged them several times and they still look good. No bends.
I am going to agree it has a lot to do with how its made. But my current wheels are heavier than most forged 20 in wheels....and worth it im my book. Screw that light weight stuff.
It seems you have to do some research on material properties and engineering to understand this. Mike has done his best to explain it to you but you seem to be stuck on your own misconceptions. Lighter is not weaker. Heavier doesn't mean stronger.
Aluminum is aluminum. It cannot be compressed and its density cannot be changed (relatively). A356 and 6061-T6 have very close densities but very FAR tensile and yield strengths. Forged 6061-T6 has almost twice the strength of A356. A square inch of 6061-T6 can hold twice as much "mass" than A356. Other factors are involved, of course.
Why cast wheels tend to be "stronger", in your misconception, than forged wheels is because:
1. Cast wheels are typically OEM wheels that are engineered with a very large headroom for disaster.
2. Cast wheel are typically smaller sizes than forged wheels since people tend to be afraid to run larger diameter of non-forged wheels for fear of bending them (ironic huh?)
3. Cast wheel, being smaller in general, tend to use larger tire profiles than forged wheels, having more impact absorption.
4. When you bend/crack a cast $300 wheel you won't make the same spectacle you would if you bend your $1500 high end wheel so less publicity is done.
Now, go get a set of 20" cast wheels and run 20 or 25 series tires and report back to us.
Keep in mind though that the same wheel (same design), engineered the same and rated at the same load will have the same strength whether it is cast or forged.
At the end of the day engineering plays a very large role in wheel strength. Maybe you have had a share of bad luck with them. You mentioned a lot of wheel brands that are not known for their ultra-high quality either and most of them are 2PC/3PC that the term "forged" is used very loosely when describing them.
#201
03-24-2011, 04:20 PM
Clear the air
I have received numerous PMs today suggesting that Crimsone90 is in some way related to me.
FOR THE RECORD, I have no knowledge whatsoever who Crimsone90 is. He is NOT a friend, foe or family member. His or her posts are their own.
Whomever says otherwise is either malicious or misinformed.
FOR THE RECORD, I have no knowledge whatsoever who Crimsone90 is. He is NOT a friend, foe or family member. His or her posts are their own.
Whomever says otherwise is either malicious or misinformed.
#203
03-25-2011, 01:16 PM
Mike,
We've been dating for 2 years and this is how you treat me?
There is no affiliation. I`m an enthusiast and an engineer and I`m very curious about the wheel industry and how they spec they products.
We've been dating for 2 years and this is how you treat me?
There is no affiliation. I`m an enthusiast and an engineer and I`m very curious about the wheel industry and how they spec they products.
#204
03-25-2011, 01:26 PM
[QUOTE=crimsone90;3159341]Mike,
We've been dating for 2 years and this is how you treat me?
ROTFL
We've been dating for 2 years and this is how you treat me?
ROTFL
#207
03-28-2011, 07:58 PM
im running 315's on a 18x11 rim.. the slighly wider tire really protects the lip on my rims. im sure if i ran 295's i would have a little stretch and not feel comfortable driving my car in the torn up roads of san francisco.
i run hre c93's
i run hre c93's
#208
04-03-2011, 10:26 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Clarkesville, Georgia
Posts: 277
Rep Power: 30
i've beat the crap out of a few cast wheels as have buddies...never had a failure, haven't really seen many forged wheels fail either; and everyone I did see break of either cast or forged(i know at least 6 race teams that run cast wheels) was at the race track with super heat and the inherent heat cycling as well as stress would kill anything cast or forged.
yes, not having much of a sidewall does hurt...so guys...there should be no reason unless you are trying to affect the way your car turns (race)* to have your car's with very small sidewall, for city driving/occasional autox track day.
yes, not having much of a sidewall does hurt...so guys...there should be no reason unless you are trying to affect the way your car turns (race)* to have your car's with very small sidewall, for city driving/occasional autox track day.
#209
04-27-2011, 04:38 PM
The lack of response from HRE is starting to make me wonder. First, one of their wheels fails miserably on the track and they fail to answer regarding load ratings. HRE, what are your load ratings for the Turbo?
#210
04-28-2011, 11:39 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Houston Tx
Age: 39
Posts: 2,496
Rep Power: 186
I Use methods of testing metal most people have not even heard of i can tell you, that not all metal is created equal.
Heat treatment makes all the difference, two small letters like T6 versus T0 there is a 35000PSI difference in the two metals capabilities they are from the same batch machine same day just heat treated differently.
density of a forged wheel is always higher then a cast wheel of the same material.
Some companies build wheels to look good and be sort of light other build them for racing there is a huge difference. Draw your own lines in the sand look who puts info in front of you.
Heat treatment makes all the difference, two small letters like T6 versus T0 there is a 35000PSI difference in the two metals capabilities they are from the same batch machine same day just heat treated differently.
density of a forged wheel is always higher then a cast wheel of the same material.
Some companies build wheels to look good and be sort of light other build them for racing there is a huge difference. Draw your own lines in the sand look who puts info in front of you.