Softronic Software Criticism
#46
04-16-2010 | 10:07 PM
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So softronic will cover any engine related warranty issue, now that's a good warranty.
#47
04-17-2010 | 08:08 AM
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#48
04-17-2010 | 10:50 AM
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From the www.softronictuning.com guarantee page, Softronic/Vivid states, "To answer the biggest question, no this will not affect your warranty of the vehicle when only using our files. " Kudos to you for going the extra mile and guaranteeing that the Porsche factory warranty will remain intact with a Softronic flash (as long as flashed back to stock). To my knowledge, you are the only tuner offering such a solid, written, warranty. What is the process for making a claim if you follow the instructions, flash back to stock and Porsche denies a warranty claim?
#49
04-17-2010 | 05:43 PM
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#50
04-18-2010 | 05:48 AM
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I just finished installing my softronic upgrade and all I can say is WOW!!! Dan, thanks for all of your help. What a difference!!!
#51
04-18-2010 | 12:10 PM
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#52
04-18-2010 | 06:17 PM
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Well, since the OP asked for somebody to play devil's advovcate and criticize Softronic, and nobody has in 4 pages...I'll bite: I think their entire philosophy is flawed. They rely on the knock sensor (and other safety parameters) in the software to adjust map & boost values. This is not sound engine management in my book. Every knock is causing potential damage to your motor, and the presence of knock should not be used for map management. They will argue that the factory program does this out of the box, but this is a missnomer, as the factory program uses it to compansate and adjust when you are forced to run less than optimal fuel or other rare occasions that lead to random knock, and not as primary factor. Loading multiple maps and then letting the KS choose which one is optimal, is entirely different. Run 100 octane one day and then fill with 91 and you are going to get a ton of knock while the ECI tries to find the right parameters to run w/o knock. Every ping a massive pressure spike that is just hammering on your engine.
No thank you...
And for the poster that claims you cannot damage the motor if you are using the factory ECU, even when reporgrammed. This is completly not true. I could wreck easily your motor by reflashing your factory ECU with the wrong tables.
Finally, there is a difference being software being technically detectable, and legally voiding your warranty. Reflashing the ECU with any program by anybody other than a dealer is legally voiding your warranty. Whether Porsche finds out and is able to enforce this breach is an entirely different argument. Posting here is one way they might find out though....just saying.
Oveall, I'm not saying that Softronic or anybody else will trash your motor if you use it. I'm just saying its not all roses, and you should look at the underlying appraoch that each tuner takes to the way they change the EOM software, and how that effects your motor's long term health before you jump on any bandwagons.
dw
No thank you...
And for the poster that claims you cannot damage the motor if you are using the factory ECU, even when reporgrammed. This is completly not true. I could wreck easily your motor by reflashing your factory ECU with the wrong tables.
Finally, there is a difference being software being technically detectable, and legally voiding your warranty. Reflashing the ECU with any program by anybody other than a dealer is legally voiding your warranty. Whether Porsche finds out and is able to enforce this breach is an entirely different argument. Posting here is one way they might find out though....just saying.
Oveall, I'm not saying that Softronic or anybody else will trash your motor if you use it. I'm just saying its not all roses, and you should look at the underlying appraoch that each tuner takes to the way they change the EOM software, and how that effects your motor's long term health before you jump on any bandwagons.
dw
#53
04-18-2010 | 06:33 PM
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Well, since the OP asked for somebody to play devil's advovcate and criticize Softronic, and nobody has in 4 pages...I'll bite: I think their entire philosophy is flawed. They rely on the knock sensor (and other safety parameters) in the software to adjust map & boost values. This is not sound engine management in my book. Every knock is causing potential damage to your motor, and the presence of knock should not be used for map management. They will argue that the factory program does this out of the box, but this is a missnomer, as the factory program uses it to compansate and adjust when you are forced to run less than optimal fuel or other rare occasions that lead to random knock, and not as primary factor. Loading multiple maps and then letting the KS choose which one is optimal, is entirely different. Run 100 octane one day and then fill with 91 and you are going to get a ton of knock while the ECI tries to find the right parameters to run w/o knock. Every ping a massive pressure spike that is just hammering on your engine.
No thank you...
And for the poster that claims you cannot damage the motor if you are using the factory ECU, even when reporgrammed. This is completly not true. I could wreck easily your motor by reflashing your factory ECU with the wrong tables.
Finally, there is a difference being software being technically detectable, and legally voiding your warranty. Reflashing the ECU with any program by anybody other than a dealer is legally voiding your warranty. Whether Porsche finds out and is able to enforce this breach is an entirely different argument. Posting here is one way they might find out though....just saying.
Oveall, I'm not saying that Softronic or anybody else will trash your motor if you use it. I'm just saying its not all roses, and you should look at the underlying appraoch that each tuner takes to the way they change the EOM software, and how that effects your motor's long term health before you jump on any bandwagons.
dw
No thank you...
And for the poster that claims you cannot damage the motor if you are using the factory ECU, even when reporgrammed. This is completly not true. I could wreck easily your motor by reflashing your factory ECU with the wrong tables.
Finally, there is a difference being software being technically detectable, and legally voiding your warranty. Reflashing the ECU with any program by anybody other than a dealer is legally voiding your warranty. Whether Porsche finds out and is able to enforce this breach is an entirely different argument. Posting here is one way they might find out though....just saying.
Oveall, I'm not saying that Softronic or anybody else will trash your motor if you use it. I'm just saying its not all roses, and you should look at the underlying appraoch that each tuner takes to the way they change the EOM software, and how that effects your motor's long term health before you jump on any bandwagons.
dw
What are your credentials? are you an electrical engineer in the automotive industry?
#54
04-18-2010 | 09:42 PM
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Well, since the OP asked for somebody to play devil's advovcate and criticize Softronic, and nobody has in 4 pages...I'll bite: I think their entire philosophy is flawed. They rely on the knock sensor (and other safety parameters) in the software to adjust map & boost values. This is not sound engine management in my book. Every knock is causing potential damage to your motor, and the presence of knock should not be used for map management. They will argue that the factory program does this out of the box, but this is a missnomer, as the factory program uses it to compansate and adjust when you are forced to run less than optimal fuel or other rare occasions that lead to random knock, and not as primary factor. Loading multiple maps and then letting the KS choose which one is optimal, is entirely different. Run 100 octane one day and then fill with 91 and you are going to get a ton of knock while the ECI tries to find the right parameters to run w/o knock. Every ping a massive pressure spike that is just hammering on your engine.
No thank you...
And for the poster that claims you cannot damage the motor if you are using the factory ECU, even when reporgrammed. This is completly not true. I could wreck easily your motor by reflashing your factory ECU with the wrong tables.
Finally, there is a difference being software being technically detectable, and legally voiding your warranty. Reflashing the ECU with any program by anybody other than a dealer is legally voiding your warranty. Whether Porsche finds out and is able to enforce this breach is an entirely different argument. Posting here is one way they might find out though....just saying.
Oveall, I'm not saying that Softronic or anybody else will trash your motor if you use it. I'm just saying its not all roses, and you should look at the underlying appraoch that each tuner takes to the way they change the EOM software, and how that effects your motor's long term health before you jump on any bandwagons.
dw
No thank you...
And for the poster that claims you cannot damage the motor if you are using the factory ECU, even when reporgrammed. This is completly not true. I could wreck easily your motor by reflashing your factory ECU with the wrong tables.
Finally, there is a difference being software being technically detectable, and legally voiding your warranty. Reflashing the ECU with any program by anybody other than a dealer is legally voiding your warranty. Whether Porsche finds out and is able to enforce this breach is an entirely different argument. Posting here is one way they might find out though....just saying.
Oveall, I'm not saying that Softronic or anybody else will trash your motor if you use it. I'm just saying its not all roses, and you should look at the underlying appraoch that each tuner takes to the way they change the EOM software, and how that effects your motor's long term health before you jump on any bandwagons.
dw
#55
04-18-2010 | 10:37 PM
TT Surgeon - no Softronic will not cover your warranty if you blow it. That is not what the warranty guarantee that VIVID RACING puts on SoftronicTuning.com.
#56
04-19-2010 | 12:02 AM
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It seems like you "guarantee" that the software is undetectable therefore ensuring your factory warranty remains intact; the exception is when the software is detected and your factory warranty is voided. In the latter circumstance, Softronic will not cover you and Porsche will not cover you, so you really don't have any warranty guarantee at all. And we are not even touching on the fact that, if issues arose, the owner would need to commit fraud by telling Porsche the car was unmodified when it was. The circular logic just makes my head hurt.
All of the other tuners state that, if Porsche looks hard enough, their software is potentially detectable and such modification jeopardizes your warranty.
Last edited by sparkhill; 04-19-2010 at 12:21 AM.
#57
04-19-2010 | 12:13 AM
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GIAC would be a great option for anyone who is looking for a "true flash" all while obtaining the ability of switching maps through the OBD port. The ECU only needs to be removed during install but after that, all you gotta do is hook up the flash loader to the OBD port and you're set.
#58
04-19-2010 | 09:03 AM
Our guarantee is here - http://www.softronictuning.com/guarantee/. I have updated the text for those that like to read WAY to into things 
I also suggest that people read these 2 things:
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60128
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60127
I also suggest that people read these 2 things:
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60128
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=60127
Last edited by vividracing; 04-19-2010 at 09:13 AM.
#59
04-19-2010 | 09:49 AM
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Posts: 2,319
From: Fastlane USA
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Well, since the OP asked for somebody to play devil's advovcate and criticize Softronic, and nobody has in 4 pages...I'll bite: I think their entire philosophy is flawed. They rely on the knock sensor (and other safety parameters) in the software to adjust map & boost values. This is not sound engine management in my book. Every knock is causing potential damage to your motor, and the presence of knock should not be used for map management. They will argue that the factory program does this out of the box, but this is a missnomer, as the factory program uses it to compansate and adjust when you are forced to run less than optimal fuel or other rare occasions that lead to random knock, and not as primary factor. Loading multiple maps and then letting the KS choose which one is optimal, is entirely different. Run 100 octane one day and then fill with 91 and you are going to get a ton of knock while the ECI tries to find the right parameters to run w/o knock. Every ping a massive pressure spike that is just hammering on your engine.
No thank you...
And for the poster that claims you cannot damage the motor if you are using the factory ECU, even when reporgrammed. This is completly not true. I could wreck easily your motor by reflashing your factory ECU with the wrong tables.
Finally, there is a difference being software being technically detectable, and legally voiding your warranty. Reflashing the ECU with any program by anybody other than a dealer is legally voiding your warranty. Whether Porsche finds out and is able to enforce this breach is an entirely different argument. Posting here is one way they might find out though....just saying.
Oveall, I'm not saying that Softronic or anybody else will trash your motor if you use it. I'm just saying its not all roses, and you should look at the underlying appraoch that each tuner takes to the way they change the EOM software, and how that effects your motor's long term health before you jump on any bandwagons.
dw
No thank you...
And for the poster that claims you cannot damage the motor if you are using the factory ECU, even when reporgrammed. This is completly not true. I could wreck easily your motor by reflashing your factory ECU with the wrong tables.
Finally, there is a difference being software being technically detectable, and legally voiding your warranty. Reflashing the ECU with any program by anybody other than a dealer is legally voiding your warranty. Whether Porsche finds out and is able to enforce this breach is an entirely different argument. Posting here is one way they might find out though....just saying.
Oveall, I'm not saying that Softronic or anybody else will trash your motor if you use it. I'm just saying its not all roses, and you should look at the underlying appraoch that each tuner takes to the way they change the EOM software, and how that effects your motor's long term health before you jump on any bandwagons.
dw
#60
04-19-2010 | 11:02 AM
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I am confused. In post #40 and #44, I quote your website stating the factory warranty is guaranteed to remain intact. In post #45, you agreed with what I posted. Now you are saying that Softronic will not cover warranty issues denied by Porsche due to the fact the car has been flashed. I guess just don't know what the "warranty guarantee" is then.
It seems like you "guarantee" that the software is undetectable therefore ensuring your factory warranty remains intact; the exception is when the software is detected and your factory warranty is voided. In the latter circumstance, Softronic will not cover you and Porsche will not cover you, so you really don't have any warranty guarantee at all. And we are not even touching on the fact that, if issues arose, the owner would need to commit fraud by telling Porsche the car was unmodified when it was. The circular logic just makes my head hurt.
All of the other tuners state that, if Porsche looks hard enough, their software is potentially detectable and such modification jeopardizes your warranty.
It seems like you "guarantee" that the software is undetectable therefore ensuring your factory warranty remains intact; the exception is when the software is detected and your factory warranty is voided. In the latter circumstance, Softronic will not cover you and Porsche will not cover you, so you really don't have any warranty guarantee at all. And we are not even touching on the fact that, if issues arose, the owner would need to commit fraud by telling Porsche the car was unmodified when it was. The circular logic just makes my head hurt.
All of the other tuners state that, if Porsche looks hard enough, their software is potentially detectable and such modification jeopardizes your warranty.
Vivid has been upfront, this is a softronics warranty clarification issue.
c