Not that it is very important to me; however, with over 2 years of Nissan taunting Porsche over their blazing 'ring times, I'm wondering how the new 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo PDK does against the GT-R. It seems like the new Porsche is faster in the straight line and grips just as well as the GT-R so I am assuming it will be faster...the Panamera Turbo posted up some excellent times and I'm sure if Porsche tested the Panamera, they tested the 911 Turbo sports car. Are there any times that are released yet? Is Porsche just going to use the Turbo S for the Nurburgring? Or did Nissan just do the impossible and Porsche can't run those times?

 

Read the interview with rohrl in pano last month... He said the pdk and the manual turned the same 'ring time. Trans didnt matter.

 

lol...

30 page thread. At least.

 

that was my grand master plan: forum wars! mwahahaha!

Looking foward to the answers. Thanks

 

Hi Casey,

If it's the article in Panorama, then what Rohrl meant by manual was the manual or automatic MODES of a PDK. He was NOT referring to the manual gear box at all. Rohrl was asked and basically said he was equally fast if he shift the PDK manually, or let the computer does it.
I only know because I was trying to understand myself this point. In fact tore the article of the mag and have it in front of me now.

 

Are you sure about that, Can? I read it a while back but I could have sworn he was comparing PDK vs. a 6 speed.

 

There is one rumored time of the new PDK Turbo, and it's 10 seconds lower then 997.1 Turbo. Of which I would say 5 seconds from PDK, 2.5 seconds from more power, and 2.5 from stiffer spring. This may or may not be faster than GT-R. And the reason has nothing to do with power: it is about suspension/tire, and the corporate philosophy for this car.

I think an extremely important point that is missed by the mass during the GTR versus 997.1 Turbo debate is total omission of any suspension consideration. Only a few people like Heavy Chevy made mentions of tire difference and suspension difference between the 2 cars.

The Turbo is tuned to be a daily driver with soft suspension so people like you and me could drive it to work in comfort. No matter how much power, it can't compete with a car that is geared towards the tract.
Porsche can, but won't tune the car to be fast at the track, because that is not the mission of this car. Because it could tolerate bumpy streets better, it will remain an incomparble daily driver and will continue to sell like hot cakes despite of the slower ring time.

Bottom line: To use track time ONLY to judge this car is IMHO a severe misunderstanding of its mission. Other parameters (ride versus handling) must be considered as well.

 

There are a couple of parts to that interview wherein PDK vs. manual was commented upon.

Earlier on, he did mention that on a Cayman, 6speed versus PDK is no different. As for the Turbo, he has not tested 6speed versus PDK. While you could extrapolate data from Cayman to Turbo, it might not be a good idea because of one key difference: the turbo engine.
PDK, by means of maintaining boost between shifts, is much more favorable to a turbo engine. Forward momentum is maintained better and this is why that PDK Turbo is killing everyone on a straight line out there. When I drove the PDK turbo a few weeks ago, the brief time that I was able to glance at the boost gauge (before risking killing the car and myself), there was no drop in boost at all with shifts during WOT runs. You step on the gas and the car just accelerates in a non-stop fashion, unlike manual with those momentum-halting shifts.
One has to think that at the track, the PDK turbo *will* have a significant advantage over its manual counterpart (it already absolutely kills the manual in 0-60 time), especially with any driver other than Rohrl (or other true pro drivers), who must be among the fastest shifter on the planet.

Towards the end, he did talk about PDK:
Q: How do you find yourself driving the PDK on a normal road? Do you leave it in automatic?
Rohrl: Always manual, but the next point is that on the Nurburgring, going for time, there is no difference if I shift manually or in automatic. Same time. Same seconds.

 

Interesting. I can tell you this having run both a stock GTr and a Stock 997.2 PDK, the PDK will put a bus length on the GTR in a straight line.

 

Who cares about the time. I agree the car is not built to run times. It is a street driving demon. I'm not sure there is a car in it's league for that.

 

Absolutely! In the straight there is not a mass production car in the world that will keep up with PDK Turbo in the first few gears.
It's the "perfect storm": Porsche + Turbo + PDK + 4wd traction = hell breaking loose.

While the GTR has the requisite "perfect storm" conditions, there are 3829 reasons why straight-line acceleration will never be its strength. Even with the original launch control it wasn't its strength, now with the "new and improved" second generation launch control, the big and fat GT-R has no chance whatsoever against this PDK Porsche bad boy.

 

Exactly. Porsche makes the 2 cars in your wonderful garage to take care of track times.

Using track time to judge the Turbo and Porsche engineering is a common and most unfortunate mistake by the casual Porsche observers (they completely forget about GT2 and GT3). This is where Nissan is so deceptive in their tactics -- using a track oriented car and advertising its track time against the Porsche daily driver.

 

Interesting thing to consider on the 997.2 TT is this: From personal experience, I can say that the Sport Plus setting on the car completely transforms the handling and performance characteristics. How this affects track performance I don't know. I would assume it makes a big difference on the track. It's not just a PASM setting, it really changes the game with the Torque Vectoring, Dynamic Engine Mounts, etc.

That being said, I can't wait to see some numbers. Perhaps though, as previously stated, we'll have to wait on an official release when the Turbo S comes out.

 

Nissan's new headache...

 

I enjoy the Porsche for it's streetable characteristics. Honestly, I doubt I ever bring it to a track simply because I value the car too much to abuse it, though it will see occassional street races and maybe even a 1/4 mile run or two at Englishtown...

Still, I was just curious if the new updates would be enough to at least tie the GTR at the Nurburgring. Not that it makes any difference at all, but just something to talk about with the boys.

BTW, I'll never ever buy a Nissan because everytime I've gone to a dealership to try and get the GTR, I get screwed over or treated like crap. Some of you remember my rantings on MBworld about what they did to me and how I was very close to suing them for their conduct...in that regard, maybe I am hoping that the Porsche can kick the Nissan's *** while building a superior car all around that handles the daily driving duties of an Mercedes Benz while at the same time, putting the GTR in it's rear-view mirror on the highway...rant over lol