Official APR Tuned 997TT FAQ Thread......
#166
06-19-2010, 08:18 AM
#167
06-19-2010, 08:49 AM
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believable. No offence intended (and I mean that), but I'll patiently wait for some verified numbers before crowning APR.
#169
06-19-2010, 11:53 AM
Yeah, it's 7.18 (not 6.0) and there is only one shift (not two). Still a fast time tho. If you look at Madsex sig, it's also a Switzer tune not APR.
Jet black 997 Turbo 2008, Switzer Exhaust/tune current 60-130mph: 7.18sec
Previous Porsche: Midnight-blue metallic,996 Turbo 2003,Protomotive tuned, Fabspeed exhaust, 60-130mph: 6.48sec with k24/18g's - 60lbs injectors, previous 60-130mph: 7.83sec with chipped k24's<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
Jet black 997 Turbo 2008, Switzer Exhaust/tune current 60-130mph: 7.18sec
Previous Porsche: Midnight-blue metallic,996 Turbo 2003,Protomotive tuned, Fabspeed exhaust, 60-130mph: 6.48sec with k24/18g's - 60lbs injectors, previous 60-130mph: 7.83sec with chipped k24's<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
#170
06-19-2010, 05:50 PM
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#171
06-19-2010, 07:32 PM
" Creating stories "
If you are quoting me as creating stories tclay then you'll need to be specific and have your facts in order or your gonna have a problem. Also, if you are refering to Protomotive's web site again you should be specific how they are "creating stories", else refrain from using this phrase out of its original context.
Gee, the Promotive web site refers interested parties to these blogs to hear stories about their product.
If there is something wrong with that tclay then why not spell it out for everyone? Inferring Protomotives countless user reviews, many which involve data as being "stories" is a complete misuse of the word and is in itself "creating stories".
Now tclay if you are personally aware of any bogus "stories" out there associated to a specific Protomotive tune user review then by all means please fill me/us all in. Im sure there would be plenty who would appreciate such info so as not to make a mistake as such. Nobody likes to be misled or tricked into believing nonsense.
It was Protomotives website advice refering me to the web and forums which wound me up as being a customer so their formula definately works. As i said previously, anyone referring all of their potential clients to the forums must be very confident of their product. Just one bad thread or post could result in a lost sale.
I also dont fall for BS stories as you may have noticed right throughout this thread. BS doesnt wash with me one bit, never has, never will, and whilst BS may work to a degree (against some) it will only take you so far so be careful with that if you plan on any with me.
At any rate, I dont have times either, so we are even on that one. I am very happy with my car, so we are even on that one.
Fine by me tclay, it was never an even stevens thing for me but if your happy then in fine....truly.
As for as reliability, I now have 13k on my APR tune. Have just now replaced the clutch to a SACH 2.5. I did so because there was slipping on WOT and heavy aggressive driving at the track. The FW was not in bad shape. I am just now breaking in the clutch.
Great! But it had been pointed out previously that your cars clutch slipped at wot from day one after your tune went in. It had also been pointed out that you had driven your car for 10K with that particular issue....not something i would have done personally but...you car your choice.
So I dont know where we stand on that one, how many miles on your tune?
So far my clutch is not slipping. My tune has only been in 2 weeks but it didn't slip at wot from day one and still isnt now. Now thats not to say it won't slip at one point but if/when it does i will upgrade it immediately. I couldnt handle driving it for 1 kilometer with a slippy clutch but thats me. You are obviously different there tclay.
We APR users are few but based on 13k and going strong I feel we too are on safe ground.
If you feel good about that tclay, thats great, its your car and you've got to be comfortable. For me i couldn't live with being one of an unknown handfull of APR guinea pigs hence me going for Todd K's Protomotive tune which had countless user reviews (all positive), many with performance data etc. Another influencing factor was APR's lack of available info regarding the boost spec's of the tune plus i wasnt happy at all with the way they had toasted the sports chrono function which was a valuable option. I saw being relegated to one tune setting a travesty given my car had the functionality for two settings.
You may not have sports Chrono for all i know, so it may not bother you but most who have paid for it want to keep it intact. VW and Audi people are obviously different to us Porsche people.
Lastly, APR does have 2 tunes. They have a tune for stock exhaust and a 2nd tune for " test pipes ". This being for an upgraded exhaust. I do not know the difference between these tunes.
I was told by APR the tune was identical other than a minor adjustment for the exhaust flow. Again that advice was not re assuring as they couldn't even tell me basic stuff like boost etc, nor direct me to any tangible users/reviews. Just read there website. So, really i didnt know what to believe. Ive always been very cautious of sales spiels particularly when there is absolutely nothing to back it up. You are obviously different...again no problem for me....your choice etc. I've always been a stickler for facts and details....just how i am.
I do know that when I upgraded my exhaust to FVD my car was reflashed, excluding a nominal labor fee of 50$, by APR for free.
If you are quoting me as creating stories tclay then you'll need to be specific and have your facts in order or your gonna have a problem. Also, if you are refering to Protomotive's web site again you should be specific how they are "creating stories", else refrain from using this phrase out of its original context.
Gee, the Promotive web site refers interested parties to these blogs to hear stories about their product.
If there is something wrong with that tclay then why not spell it out for everyone? Inferring Protomotives countless user reviews, many which involve data as being "stories" is a complete misuse of the word and is in itself "creating stories".
Now tclay if you are personally aware of any bogus "stories" out there associated to a specific Protomotive tune user review then by all means please fill me/us all in. Im sure there would be plenty who would appreciate such info so as not to make a mistake as such. Nobody likes to be misled or tricked into believing nonsense.
It was Protomotives website advice refering me to the web and forums which wound me up as being a customer so their formula definately works. As i said previously, anyone referring all of their potential clients to the forums must be very confident of their product. Just one bad thread or post could result in a lost sale.
I also dont fall for BS stories as you may have noticed right throughout this thread. BS doesnt wash with me one bit, never has, never will, and whilst BS may work to a degree (against some) it will only take you so far so be careful with that if you plan on any with me.
At any rate, I dont have times either, so we are even on that one. I am very happy with my car, so we are even on that one.
Fine by me tclay, it was never an even stevens thing for me but if your happy then in fine....truly.
As for as reliability, I now have 13k on my APR tune. Have just now replaced the clutch to a SACH 2.5. I did so because there was slipping on WOT and heavy aggressive driving at the track. The FW was not in bad shape. I am just now breaking in the clutch.
Great! But it had been pointed out previously that your cars clutch slipped at wot from day one after your tune went in. It had also been pointed out that you had driven your car for 10K with that particular issue....not something i would have done personally but...you car your choice.
So I dont know where we stand on that one, how many miles on your tune?
So far my clutch is not slipping. My tune has only been in 2 weeks but it didn't slip at wot from day one and still isnt now. Now thats not to say it won't slip at one point but if/when it does i will upgrade it immediately. I couldnt handle driving it for 1 kilometer with a slippy clutch but thats me. You are obviously different there tclay.
We APR users are few but based on 13k and going strong I feel we too are on safe ground.
If you feel good about that tclay, thats great, its your car and you've got to be comfortable. For me i couldn't live with being one of an unknown handfull of APR guinea pigs hence me going for Todd K's Protomotive tune which had countless user reviews (all positive), many with performance data etc. Another influencing factor was APR's lack of available info regarding the boost spec's of the tune plus i wasnt happy at all with the way they had toasted the sports chrono function which was a valuable option. I saw being relegated to one tune setting a travesty given my car had the functionality for two settings.
You may not have sports Chrono for all i know, so it may not bother you but most who have paid for it want to keep it intact. VW and Audi people are obviously different to us Porsche people.
Lastly, APR does have 2 tunes. They have a tune for stock exhaust and a 2nd tune for " test pipes ". This being for an upgraded exhaust. I do not know the difference between these tunes.
I was told by APR the tune was identical other than a minor adjustment for the exhaust flow. Again that advice was not re assuring as they couldn't even tell me basic stuff like boost etc, nor direct me to any tangible users/reviews. Just read there website. So, really i didnt know what to believe. Ive always been very cautious of sales spiels particularly when there is absolutely nothing to back it up. You are obviously different...again no problem for me....your choice etc. I've always been a stickler for facts and details....just how i am.
I do know that when I upgraded my exhaust to FVD my car was reflashed, excluding a nominal labor fee of 50$, by APR for free.
#173
06-20-2010, 03:31 PM
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Sorry guys, I meant 6,0 for 100-200 not 60-130...Switzer is the exhaust on the car (or better was,he sold it) not the flash...
#174
06-20-2010, 08:27 PM
[quote=tclayj;2880199]" Creating stories " Gee, the Promotive web site refers interested parties to these blogs to hear stories about their product. quote]
For the benefit of everyone, what were you exactly inferring or trying to say here then tclay? This'll be good.
So let me get this straight tclay. So you have never accused or insinuated that either I and/or Protomotive were endeavoring to "create stories"?
Give me a break. You really need to sort your act out and get your facts straight tclay before posting rubbish. I did warn you about BSing around me.
And yes, prior too, Skandalis had indeed attempted to accuse me of "creating stories" but that claim was exposed as a complete utter fallacy due to all my questions and responses to him being (always) based on the information and satements provided by both he and GMP.
Your reference to cheap talk is also unfounded unless of course you are refering to your own postings directed toward me.....which i agree are cheap talk, and also devoid of any substantive fact.
And show me the numbers? You really do need to both read and follow (all) the threads tclay if you are referring to me personally....the answer to your particular silly demand is again, "within"
.
For the benefit of everyone, what were you exactly inferring or trying to say here then tclay? This'll be good.
Give me a break. You really need to sort your act out and get your facts straight tclay before posting rubbish. I did warn you about BSing around me.
And yes, prior too, Skandalis had indeed attempted to accuse me of "creating stories" but that claim was exposed as a complete utter fallacy due to all my questions and responses to him being (always) based on the information and satements provided by both he and GMP.
Your reference to cheap talk is also unfounded unless of course you are refering to your own postings directed toward me.....which i agree are cheap talk, and also devoid of any substantive fact.
And show me the numbers? You really do need to both read and follow (all) the threads tclay if you are referring to me personally....the answer to your particular silly demand is again, "within"
.
Last edited by speed21; 06-20-2010 at 08:30 PM.
#175
06-21-2010, 02:12 AM
Hello guys,
I have been watching very very closely the entire course from the very beggining for this thread and have not intervened at all up until this moment. I would like however to cut in now:
First of all the "APR" issue was brought up by me last fall when Skandalis car was still in the hands of the previous owner who was making some pretty bold claims that he was the fastest Porsche in Greece (among other much more powerful combinations) etc.... Even though Skandalis raced him in his 996tt and beat him ofcourse he still continued to talk big up until the moment he sold the car. During this period I had an invitation for an APR trial from the Greek dealer and since my car was not flashed at the moment I went ahead and tried it out ( I had a Switzer exhaust with cats as well). To be honest the car felt very very fast indeed and the minute I made the first 2nd gear WOT the clutch slipped (at 32000kms). I was pretty sure that this would happen - after all the torque had risen significantly- and I had already thought about ordering a new upgraded set either way...
After some testing and "vboxing" and some streetraces with other friends I can safely say the car was very very fast esp low down and up to 220km/h - after that faster/more powerful combis beat me!
Never used race gas however and only premium unleaded gas with their "race" setting which was fairly quicker that their "pump" setting...
The dash boost gauge never showed more than 1 Bar neither did it do so even after pressing the sport chrono button.... As I understand this is completely normal even if the car runs 1.5 bars of boost... The stock dash does not show more than 1 in normal and 1.2 in SC!
As I said the car was blistering fast and I could achieve times in the region of 6.2-6.4 all day long for 100-200 km/h with 1 shift and I even managed a 6sec during a streetrace for 100-200 with 2 shifts (that being the very best I had seen...
Overall I must admit the car felt very very quick but I did not keep the flash mainly because for the pricetag for which I would prefer to simply upgrade my VTG's for the same money and have a more powerful car..
After that ( I still have not upgraded my VTG's) I tried a flash from a local tuner friend of mine and I was getting 6.3-6.5 100-200 1 shift results (the 7.18 60-130 verified time was recorded with that tune) however admitedly the car was a bit slower ( I did some 70-245km/h tests as well) esp down low where you could feel the difference in torque compared to the APR! Nevertheless this was an off the shelve tune that has been tweaked from then but I did not have the opportunity yet to vbox (sold my exhaust inbetween and am running stock for now) but I will soon....
I will give my friend Skandalis and his 6.48 run a go as he promised me... Any questions pls feel free to ask as I have been investigating this "APR" issue since last September...
#176
06-21-2010, 03:56 AM
Thanks for your post Madsex.
I note you concur that APR's boost is higher than the 1 bar shown on the gauge. Thanks for your honesty and detail surrounding the boost and gauge issue from your first hand experience as a user. It should now be crystal clear for everybody that the APR tune has killed of the sports C mode and that only 1 bar will ever show on either mode setting. Sorry to rub it in Skand......but that story of your 1 bar dura data log and mech boost gauge test? As I said.....nobodys buying that.
Anyway a couple of questions if you dont mind.
1) What did the Greece APR agent actually tell you the tune boosted at?
2) Accepting APR's high price was a deal breaker for you (as i imagine it was for many) what really stopped you from keeping it? You obviously had enough money to afford it.
3) You also said you intended upgrading your clutch so wouldnt it have been wiser to just do that and pay the high price of the APR tune?
4) You talk about the want for bigger turbos and other mods to get more power, yet if all of that extra power doesn't result in the car being as fast as the APR tuned car then why bother doing mods? Why not just get the APR tune as it doesnt need these?
5) I understand that you say that after 220 the APR ran out of steam but what about if you had a new clutch and 100 octane?
Sorry...last correction..
6) If you arent getting the APR tune what tune do you think you will get to go with your mod's??
Thanks.
I note you concur that APR's boost is higher than the 1 bar shown on the gauge. Thanks for your honesty and detail surrounding the boost and gauge issue from your first hand experience as a user. It should now be crystal clear for everybody that the APR tune has killed of the sports C mode and that only 1 bar will ever show on either mode setting. Sorry to rub it in Skand......but that story of your 1 bar dura data log and mech boost gauge test? As I said.....nobodys buying that.
Anyway a couple of questions if you dont mind.
1) What did the Greece APR agent actually tell you the tune boosted at?
2) Accepting APR's high price was a deal breaker for you (as i imagine it was for many) what really stopped you from keeping it? You obviously had enough money to afford it.
3) You also said you intended upgrading your clutch so wouldnt it have been wiser to just do that and pay the high price of the APR tune?
4) You talk about the want for bigger turbos and other mods to get more power, yet if all of that extra power doesn't result in the car being as fast as the APR tuned car then why bother doing mods? Why not just get the APR tune as it doesnt need these?
5) I understand that you say that after 220 the APR ran out of steam but what about if you had a new clutch and 100 octane?
Sorry...last correction..
6) If you arent getting the APR tune what tune do you think you will get to go with your mod's??
Thanks
.
Last edited by speed21; 06-21-2010 at 04:27 AM.
#177
06-21-2010, 05:53 AM
Thanks for your post Madsex.
I note you concur that APR's boost is higher than the 1 bar shown on the gauge.
I am not sure as I did not datalog it (durametric was not working at that time) but it sure sounded and felt as it was running more boost than 1bar!
Thanks for your honesty and detail surrounding the boost and gauge issue from your first hand experience as a user. It should now be crystal clear for everybody that the APR tune has killed of the sports C mode and that only 1 bar will ever show on either mode setting.
That was my general feeling as well. although I never got around to invstigate further and prove it!
Sorry to rub it in Skand......but that story of your 1 bar dura data log and mech boost gauge test? As I said.....nobodys buying that.
Anyway a couple of questions if you dont mind.
1) What did the Greece APR agent actually tell you the tune boosted at?
1 bar max
2) Accepting APR's high price was a deal breaker for you (as i imagine it was for many) what really stopped you from keeping it? You obviously had enough money to afford it.
Wanted to try something else and also thought if I wanted to upgrade later I would have to pay more money for a different tune either way.... So 3,500 Euros here (not $$$) down the drain if you change turbos
3) You also said you intended upgrading your clutch so wouldnt it have been wiser to just do that and pay the high price of the APR tune?
I did upgrade the clutch my friend - sorry for not making clear... I would with ANY tune - in my opinion it is necessary and will become a problem sooner or later...
4) You talk about the want for bigger turbos and other mods to get more power, yet if all of that extra power doesn't result in the car being as fast as the APR tuned car then why bother doing mods? Why not just get the APR tune as it doesnt need these?
At the moment and coming from a Proto 996tt with great power just a flash seemed a bit low for me... + I like to press the pedal till 260-280km/h....
5) I understand that you say that after 220 the APR ran out of steam but what about if you had a new clutch and 100 octane?
I had a new clutch - brand new to be accurate- but no racegas... In all honesty I think it could be faster with the gas but still could not keep up with a proper tuned upgraded VTG car esp AFTER 220km/h! But it was blistring fast and very smooth indeed up until that point....
Sorry...last correction..
6) If you arent getting the APR tune what tune do you think you will get to go with your mod's??
Mods or no mods I have my preferences but would not like to sound biased so if you would like we can talk about this with pm's...
Thanks.
I note you concur that APR's boost is higher than the 1 bar shown on the gauge.
I am not sure as I did not datalog it (durametric was not working at that time) but it sure sounded and felt as it was running more boost than 1bar!
Thanks for your honesty and detail surrounding the boost and gauge issue from your first hand experience as a user. It should now be crystal clear for everybody that the APR tune has killed of the sports C mode and that only 1 bar will ever show on either mode setting.
That was my general feeling as well. although I never got around to invstigate further and prove it!
Sorry to rub it in Skand......but that story of your 1 bar dura data log and mech boost gauge test? As I said.....nobodys buying that.
Anyway a couple of questions if you dont mind.
1) What did the Greece APR agent actually tell you the tune boosted at?
1 bar max
2) Accepting APR's high price was a deal breaker for you (as i imagine it was for many) what really stopped you from keeping it? You obviously had enough money to afford it.
Wanted to try something else and also thought if I wanted to upgrade later I would have to pay more money for a different tune either way.... So 3,500 Euros here (not $$$) down the drain if you change turbos
3) You also said you intended upgrading your clutch so wouldnt it have been wiser to just do that and pay the high price of the APR tune?
I did upgrade the clutch my friend - sorry for not making clear... I would with ANY tune - in my opinion it is necessary and will become a problem sooner or later...
4) You talk about the want for bigger turbos and other mods to get more power, yet if all of that extra power doesn't result in the car being as fast as the APR tuned car then why bother doing mods? Why not just get the APR tune as it doesnt need these?
At the moment and coming from a Proto 996tt with great power just a flash seemed a bit low for me... + I like to press the pedal till 260-280km/h....
5) I understand that you say that after 220 the APR ran out of steam but what about if you had a new clutch and 100 octane?
I had a new clutch - brand new to be accurate- but no racegas... In all honesty I think it could be faster with the gas but still could not keep up with a proper tuned upgraded VTG car esp AFTER 220km/h! But it was blistring fast and very smooth indeed up until that point....
Sorry...last correction..
6) If you arent getting the APR tune what tune do you think you will get to go with your mod's??
Mods or no mods I have my preferences but would not like to sound biased so if you would like we can talk about this with pm's...
Thanks
.Ofcourse I have since seen the light again and will have thorough datalogs and vbox results hopefully when it cools down a little in a couple of months from my current flash/exhaust setup!
Last edited by madsex343; 06-21-2010 at 05:56 AM.
#178
06-21-2010, 08:20 AM
Thanks for seeing it through Matthew. This must be a very tough and trying excercise for you guys but it'll be great to see some quality data and answers.
And why did they sell their 997tt? Seems very odd why APR jettisoned their only real connection with the Porsche fraternity. Having a car has would have had its distinct marketing advantages imo. It seems the APR guys much prefer their Vee Dub's and Audi's which is evidently where their true heart and expertise is. Maybe this Posche 997tt tune was just a fleeting experiment? It was so not Porsche to do away with the functionality of the SC mode.
Speed21 I can only name one tuner in the USA that actually still owns a 997T since tuning it. There is nothing wrong with buying a car to test and tune it for R&D, and then sell it aftwwards. Keep in mind they have 4 race teams to run and no one needs a 150+ k car just laying around. Once the R&D is done and the software is released there is no need for the car anymore. They don't go to any Porsche shoes and they don't need it in their shop to give customers test drives and they aren't going to race it so why keep it? I'm sure it was purely a financial business decision. They also did several marketing events with this car. Keep in mind this was 4 years ago when they bought it.
And why did they sell their 997tt? Seems very odd why APR jettisoned their only real connection with the Porsche fraternity. Having a car has would have had its distinct marketing advantages imo. It seems the APR guys much prefer their Vee Dub's and Audi's which is evidently where their true heart and expertise is. Maybe this Posche 997tt tune was just a fleeting experiment? It was so not Porsche to do away with the functionality of the SC mode.
Speed21 I can only name one tuner in the USA that actually still owns a 997T since tuning it. There is nothing wrong with buying a car to test and tune it for R&D, and then sell it aftwwards. Keep in mind they have 4 race teams to run and no one needs a 150+ k car just laying around. Once the R&D is done and the software is released there is no need for the car anymore. They don't go to any Porsche shoes and they don't need it in their shop to give customers test drives and they aren't going to race it so why keep it? I'm sure it was purely a financial business decision. They also did several marketing events with this car. Keep in mind this was 4 years ago when they bought it.
#179
06-21-2010, 09:05 AM
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madsex,
thanks for chiming in. It sounds to me that the APR tune is great for up to 220km/hr or so and the reason you wanted more is really for speeds beyond that. Is that about right? For me, I'll rarely get above 220km/hr so I'm most interested in max performance below that speed.
I'm eagerly awaiting the results of APR tune with pump gas and 200 cell cats!!!!!!!!
thanks for chiming in. It sounds to me that the APR tune is great for up to 220km/hr or so and the reason you wanted more is really for speeds beyond that. Is that about right? For me, I'll rarely get above 220km/hr so I'm most interested in max performance below that speed.
I'm eagerly awaiting the results of APR tune with pump gas and 200 cell cats!!!!!!!!
#180
06-21-2010, 09:11 AM
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Kostaki nice to see you here...a promise is a promise...Now that Posidonia ended and the weather is not so hot...maybe we can have a race...or we can wait till you install an exhaust for a fair play...Speak to you soon my friend...
P.S. Thank you for verifying my words about 6,0 100-200 with APR tune and 2 shifts...
Above 220km kostas never lost a race from an equally tuned car...He only lost from modified VTGs,coolers,fender intakes,etc...Races with flash and exhaust APR was way infront...
P.S. Thank you for verifying my words about 6,0 100-200 with APR tune and 2 shifts...
Above 220km kostas never lost a race from an equally tuned car...He only lost from modified VTGs,coolers,fender intakes,etc...Races with flash and exhaust APR was way infront...
Last edited by skandalis447; 06-21-2010 at 09:14 AM.