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Official APR Tuned 997TT FAQ Thread......

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  #241  
Old 06-24-2010, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by TTdude
Thanks. I've never recorded my boost level. Maybe I'll do that. I don't have SC, so it will interesting to see what I'm running.
So you guys (bbywu/TT) are on it? Do you still want me to ask Todd K?
I know he doesnt like getting involved with forum stuff, least of all silly nonsense such as whats been going on with this APR tune, so if i dont need to, please let me know.
 
  #242  
Old 06-24-2010, 07:15 PM
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Damn you guys have a major hard on for APR. Who cares if they do not live on this forum and talk about Porsches, etc. 95% or better of there market is Audi/VW. Just cause they are not on here defending there tune doesn't mean they are not worthy of offering a tune for Porsche. At the end of the day I have never heard a bad thing about APR and the Audi/VW crowd absolutely loves them. You guys already said they charged to much which to me is comical, many tuners tune is about $3k, APRs is what, $3500.

Anyways, flame away, all that matters is that the guys who have there tune is obviously very happy and aren't gonna change and that's all that really matters.
 
  #243  
Old 06-24-2010, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Kasaasta
You have valid points and you've raised good questions regarding APR's software and especially the knowledge of some end users about how APR's software works. However, when suggesting that Audi/Vw owners are obviously settling for less when Porsche owners demand quality is a bad generalisation. Also, why on would you accept someone better if they came from Ferrari/Maserati/Lambo background? If you think about the number of Audi/VW's compared to F/M/L the difference is huge. Many of VW guys modify their cars hard and still expect the cars to perform reliable. Just as Porsche owners. When some tuner has serious competence with other marques besides high end cars, does it not count?

When tuning expensive cars the number is more limited than with less expensive ones. I'd give credit to APR for gaining an impressive reputation within VW/Audi scene and providing different levels of reliable tuning. If their products (or someone elses for that matter) were rubbish or damaging vehicles, I bet they'd be out of business quite quickly and wouldn't have a good name.

For some reason your posts seem to have a negative tone towards APR and those who say that they've had good experiences with their software. Not talking about Greece here

But like I said, I'll just move along. Besides, I don't even have Pcar, Vw or Audi, I drive a Fiat.. Carry on.
Ok. Thanks for clearing up your earlier confusing post and I will now address the points i have highlit in your above post.

RANT ON

Firstly members of my own family and friends own or have owned VW's and Audi's along the way so i certainly dont consider myself as being any better of a person just because I can afford (or choose to drive) a 997tt. For eg; my own father currently owns a GTi yet he could afford to drive any car he wanted regardless of Australia's rediculously high pricing structure for cars. Cars don't really interest him as much as me and, this is also unfortunately evidenced in the way he treats his car like a POS.
So please be clear on this point, that no post of mine was ever intended to ridicule or demean any person because of the cars they drive regardless whether they can or cant afford to drive anything better. In fact i've come across some complete c..ks who own expensive marques who actually think they are better than the next person and they truly make me sick.

And on APR's competance and product satisfaction for Porsches customers:
Everyone obviously has different expectations.
My expectations for a tune for a 52,000.00 GTI vs a tune for a 420,000 997tt are evidently different to yours and certain others.
When i fork out 420k hard earned $ for a P car and then stick a tune into it i certainly want more than just simply verbal assurances from some sales person selling it to me. And when that person selling it can't even tell you anything about it (basic things) and, when asked, then later provide flawed and inconsistent conflicting information I start getting somewhat nervous and lose confidence and trust. Thats just me, and a few others here it would appear. Some on the other hand have been far more trusting......fine by me.
Now maybe dud answers like that make you feel all warm and fuzzy and "positive" inside. Me, no, the exact opposite happens. Also when i buy a tune for a 420k car i expect it to give me more than what I had to begin with....not remove things in the process that i've paid good money for (ie: S/Chrono function). For a 52k VW GTI i may well be prepared to cop a few compromises along the way, but a 420k car...absolutely not!!
There is a big differnce between paying 420k and 52K so expectations differ accordingly.....become higher if you will. I trust i am clear enough for you and any others out there questioning the logic going on, on this thread.

On your final highlit point where you quote my posts as having a negative tone about them, i ask you to please consider this:

When reasonable questions are asked, and responsive and accurate answers are then "willingly forthcomming" there is never any need for negative tones, or further questioning, doubts, sceptisism, interogations... etc.

However Kasaasta, when reasonable questions are asked (as has been very much the case here) and BS and flawed answers repeatedly ensue, any further questioning automatically tends to become far less forgiving/friendly/"positive"/trusting etc etc etc....not through want, but more so through necessity in a bid to arrive at the "elusive" truth and to clear away the BS.

I dont mean to offend you or anyone but i believe nobody likes to be fed BS (I think?). I certainly know i dont. Maybe perhaps you warm to BS and nonsense being fed to you repeatedly??.....everyone is different i guess and If so, no problem. I've actually come across some people who love BS and thrive on it so if you are like that then no problem, each to his own,(no offense) but please don't make the point that I'm being negative just because I dont like BS being fed to me by the truckload, or are being negative simply for the sake of being negative. I always try to be a very positive person wherever i can and I dont think i would have got to where i have by being some ultra negative person. Im actually a very firm believer you need to be very postive to get ahead in this world.

So to finally try and clear this point up for you, I genuinly believe I have articulated and directed my questions in a manner best likely to spark a response and draw out some quality answers amidst all the BS and nonsense that has been repeatedly going on over this APR tune. And, If my methods have wound up dissapointing some then I make no appologies at this stage as the truth is what we are really after here and one way or another id like to think we are going to get it.

6speeders deserve the truth!!!

RANT OFF.
 

Last edited by speed21; 06-24-2010 at 10:03 PM.
  #244  
Old 06-24-2010, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Christian
Damn you guys have a major hard on for APR. Who cares if they do not live on this forum and talk about Porsches, etc.

I dont care if they do or they dont and nor does anyone else so what on earth are you going on about??

95% or better of there market is Audi/VW.

Thats pretty bluddy obvious.

Just cause they are not on here defending there tune doesn't mean they are not worthy of offering a tune for Porsche.

To the contrary. I'd place money on you being out numbered on that one.

At the end of the day I have never heard a bad thing about APR and the Audi/VW crowd absolutely loves them. You guys already said they charged to much which to me is comical, many tuners tune is about $3k, APRs is what, $3500.

I'd take a guess you are on you own with that one. Just use madsex as a recent example... even he couldn't stomach paying the stupid price they stuck on it over there (3500eu) in Greece regardless of how fast it was. Same with me here in Aus at 4200.00 Aud.

Lets just start with FVD and Softronic, both given quantities and excellent value at 1999 list with durametric cable and sometimes BMC filter. APR's 3500 was nowhere and even they now have responded with 2500 so that blows your point well and truly out the window. And then there is Evoms, Giac.....so on so forth representing a given quantity and far better value.

Anyways, flame away,

You dont mean "keep on digging all that APR BS" out of the way?

all that matters is that the guys who have there tune is obviously very happy and aren't gonna change and that's all that really matters.
Totally fine by me Christian. Each to his own totally on that.

I wonder why you ever posted the APR Tune up and just walked away?????

If APR ever want a deal from me (and i suspect many others here) they are going to have provide a hell of a lot more than just self indulgent marketing hype and personal assurances. Getting their own facts straight when asked questions will also go a long way .

I think i know who the real comedian here is .
 

Last edited by speed21; 06-24-2010 at 10:47 PM.
  #245  
Old 06-24-2010, 10:23 PM
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1. APR says their tune locks/freezes/disables boost gauge, so it always reads 1.0

2. APR (and/or their agents) say their tune is aimed primarily at U.S. owners

who have fewer opportunities to spend a lot of time over 130mph than owners

in Germany, the Middle East, etc.

3. APR's tune produces a curiously huge amount of torque very early, then drops

off unusually soon.

4. APR's tune, unlike any other, makes oddly small horsepower gains.

5. Horsepower exists as a function of torque (it's a rule).

6. The above statements are indisputable. Please point out any factual errors.

7. Is it possible APR is simply turning up the wick very high, very early, and

for a relatively short time to impress the customer yet avoid ka-boom$$ ?

Bobby, is this a possibility ?
 
  #246  
Old 06-25-2010, 12:24 AM
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Like yourself bumperpip.... way too many unknowns for my liking.....and agree anythings a possiblity.

This 997tt APR tune does look very very rubbery at the moment. I'm just so thankfull its nowhere near my car.
 

Last edited by speed21; 06-25-2010 at 12:26 AM.
  #247  
Old 06-25-2010, 03:58 AM
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After reading your response I still feel exactly what I said earlier. It may not have anything to do with the marque one drives, though. If you first state that you don't want to offend anyone and then say "Maybe perhaps you warm to BS and nonsense being fed to you repeatedly??.....everyone is different i guess and If so, no problem. I've actually come across some people who love BS and thrive on it so if you are like that then no problem, each to his own,(no offense)", so if find this "no offence" to be more or less BS from your side.

Have you considered that a guy who drops 52k of his hard earned money may be even more picky, because he doesn't have extra money to deal with possible problems?
Just because APR themselves aren't here giving you comfort doesn't make their business unreliable, questionable, or bad in some other way.

I also think that if you require someone to do certain testing with their tune it would be proper that you knew how different thing are measured and what the measurements mean.

You seem to be in the charms of another tuner and that's fine. However, I feel it's not right that you flame others because you didn't get a good enough price or the dealer down under wasn't able to give you all the answers you needed. Now you have a tune that makes you happy and some other people have a tune that makes them happy. Is there something wrong with that?



Originally Posted by speed21
Ok. Thanks for clearing up your earlier confusing post and I will now address the points i have highlit in your above post.

RANT ON

Firstly members of my own family and friends own or have owned VW's and Audi's along the way so i certainly dont consider myself as being any better of a person just because I can afford (or choose to drive) a 997tt. For eg; my own father currently owns a GTi yet he could afford to drive any car he wanted regardless of Australia's rediculously high pricing structure for cars. Cars don't really interest him as much as me and, this is also unfortunately evidenced in the way he treats his car like a POS.
So please be clear on this point, that no post of mine was ever intended to ridicule or demean any person because of the cars they drive regardless whether they can or cant afford to drive anything better. In fact i've come across some complete c..ks who own expensive marques who actually think they are better than the next person and they truly make me sick.

And on APR's competance and product satisfaction for Porsches customers:
Everyone obviously has different expectations.
My expectations for a tune for a 52,000.00 GTI vs a tune for a 420,000 997tt are evidently different to yours and certain others.
When i fork out 420k hard earned $ for a P car and then stick a tune into it i certainly want more than just simply verbal assurances from some sales person selling it to me. And when that person selling it can't even tell you anything about it (basic things) and, when asked, then later provide flawed and inconsistent conflicting information I start getting somewhat nervous and lose confidence and trust. Thats just me, and a few others here it would appear. Some on the other hand have been far more trusting......fine by me.
Now maybe dud answers like that make you feel all warm and fuzzy and "positive" inside. Me, no, the exact opposite happens. Also when i buy a tune for a 420k car i expect it to give me more than what I had to begin with....not remove things in the process that i've paid good money for (ie: S/Chrono function). For a 52k VW GTI i may well be prepared to cop a few compromises along the way, but a 420k car...absolutely not!!
There is a big differnce between paying 420k and 52K so expectations differ accordingly.....become higher if you will. I trust i am clear enough for you and any others out there questioning the logic going on, on this thread.

On your final highlit point where you quote my posts as having a negative tone about them, i ask you to please consider this:

When reasonable questions are asked, and responsive and accurate answers are then "willingly forthcomming" there is never any need for negative tones, or further questioning, doubts, sceptisism, interogations... etc.

However Kasaasta, when reasonable questions are asked (as has been very much the case here) and BS and flawed answers repeatedly ensue, any further questioning automatically tends to become far less forgiving/friendly/"positive"/trusting etc etc etc....not through want, but more so through necessity in a bid to arrive at the "elusive" truth and to clear away the BS.

I dont mean to offend you or anyone but i believe nobody likes to be fed BS (I think?). I certainly know i dont. Maybe perhaps you warm to BS and nonsense being fed to you repeatedly??.....everyone is different i guess and If so, no problem. I've actually come across some people who love BS and thrive on it so if you are like that then no problem, each to his own,(no offense) but please don't make the point that I'm being negative just because I dont like BS being fed to me by the truckload, or are being negative simply for the sake of being negative. I always try to be a very positive person wherever i can and I dont think i would have got to where i have by being some ultra negative person. Im actually a very firm believer you need to be very postive to get ahead in this world.

So to finally try and clear this point up for you, I genuinly believe I have articulated and directed my questions in a manner best likely to spark a response and draw out some quality answers amidst all the BS and nonsense that has been repeatedly going on over this APR tune. And, If my methods have wound up dissapointing some then I make no appologies at this stage as the truth is what we are really after here and one way or another id like to think we are going to get it.

6speeders deserve the truth!!!

RANT OFF.
 
  #248  
Old 06-25-2010, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kasaasta
After reading your response I still feel exactly what I said earlier. It may not have anything to do with the marque one drives, though. If you first state that you don't want to offend anyone and then say "Maybe perhaps you warm to BS and nonsense being fed to you repeatedly??.....everyone is different i guess and If so, no problem. I've actually come across some people who love BS and thrive on it so if you are like that then no problem, each to his own,(no offense)", so if find this "no offence" to be more or less BS from your side.

Have you considered that a guy who drops 52k of his hard earned money may be even more picky, because he doesn't have extra money to deal with possible problems?
Just because APR themselves aren't here giving you comfort doesn't make their business unreliable, questionable, or bad in some other way.

I also think that if you require someone to do certain testing with their tune it would be proper that you knew how different thing are measured and what the measurements mean.

You seem to be in the charms of another tuner and that's fine. However, I feel it's not right that you flame others because you didn't get a good enough price or the dealer down under wasn't able to give you all the answers you needed. Now you have a tune that makes you happy and some other people have a tune that makes them happy. Is there something wrong with that?
I'm not gonna say you're trolling, but I'm not sure what you are hoping to add to the thread. Speed21s points were clearly stated. The APR tune may be good but there's just not enough info available about it and answers don't seem to be as forthcoming as they are from some of the other tuners. Does that make it a bad tune? No. Does it make me want to buy it? No.

Basically, if a tuner is going to make outlandish claims about their product and they hope to break into a market then they better back it up with more than just hype.

This ship has also sailed for me. I've committed to another tune from a tuner that provides not just answers to my questions but good answers.
 
  #249  
Old 06-25-2010, 07:15 AM
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While this is not directed to any one member specifically, the content of this thread is falling off topic. If this FAQ is going to degenerate into bickering between members with no technical information being provided, then it's usefulness has come to an end. If you have something of technical nature to add, or a question that needs to be answered, please post...but focus on the OP, not on each others commentary.

bob
 
  #250  
Old 06-25-2010, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Christian
Damn you guys have a major hard on for APR. Who cares if they do not live on this forum and talk about Porsches, etc. 95% or better of there market is Audi/VW. Just cause they are not on here defending there tune doesn't mean they are not worthy of offering a tune for Porsche. At the end of the day I have never heard a bad thing about APR and the Audi/VW crowd absolutely loves them. You guys already said they charged to much which to me is comical, many tuners tune is about $3k, APRs is what, $3500.

Anyways, flame away, all that matters is that the guys who have there tune is obviously very happy and aren't gonna change and that's all that really matters.
Its actually $2500 right now till the end of July

but yes I have seen tunes range from 2k-5k USD.
 
  #251  
Old 06-25-2010, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bumperpip
1. APR says their tune locks/freezes/disables boost gauge, so it always reads 1.0

2. APR (and/or their agents) say their tune is aimed primarily at U.S. owners

who have fewer opportunities to spend a lot of time over 130mph than owners

in Germany, the Middle East, etc.

3. APR's tune produces a curiously huge amount of torque very early, then drops

off unusually soon.

4. APR's tune, unlike any other, makes oddly small horsepower gains.

5. Horsepower exists as a function of torque (it's a rule).

6. The above statements are indisputable. Please point out any factual errors.

7. Is it possible APR is simply turning up the wick very high, very early, and

for a relatively short time to impress the customer yet avoid ka-boom$$ ?

Bobby, is this a possibility ?
You need to understand that APR software and exhaust is just as fast quarter mile and on the street up to 130mph than cars with upgraded turbos and intercoolers. The reason why APR's cars aren't as fast from 130 and beyond is simply the lack of power available from the factory turbos. If you have a 997TT with upgraded turbos and could be with out your car for a week or so for APR to engineer software I think you would be blown away. They simply just don't care about upgrading turbos to 997TT's there is a very small market for it. Did I mention they do all the calibrations for Heffners twin turbo R8's?
 
  #252  
Old 06-25-2010, 08:38 AM
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Just had a chat with my client with the 997TT and tubi race exhaust before I picked it up,

He did a few runs this morning, wasn't able to get to a 130 today from 60 as he had to start braking at 125-128sih before having to slow down for traffic.

He did do 30-100 in 7 seconds. and 50 mph to 70 mph in 1.4 seconds.

Dan will down the data tonight when he gets home from the office and email it to me to post up. I have some classes for new dads this weekend and continue working on the nursery so it might be Monday before I can post them up. I do have some more quarter mile times to post up on the first page from a tip car running consistan 10.5-10.7 seconds.
 
  #253  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bbywu
While this is not directed to any one member specifically, the content of this thread is falling off topic. If this FAQ is going to degenerate into bickering between members with no technical information being provided, then it's usefulness has come to an end. If you have something of technical nature to add, or a question that needs to be answered, please post...but focus on the OP, not on each others commentary.

bob
Thanks Bob, I was waiting for you to say something. As the creator, I'm working very hard to get all the data everyone has requested. We now have a vbox and we have done 30-100 up next is 60-130.

Anyone else have any other times they want us to try?
 
  #254  
Old 06-25-2010, 09:16 AM
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Apr

APR

1. 13k miles, no issues, daily driver and occasional track.
2. Cars 1st DE noticed clutch slipped on straights WOT-shifts/ acceleration. I pulled it from the tract.
3. Clutch upgraded-no issues
4. SC- no change in boost reading, throttle response increased, exhaust note louder, stop watch retains Chrono function
5. Meet a past National PCA President with APR tune and Fabspeed 200 CAT exhaust at Sebring this year-he loves it, no negative comments
6. Randy Probst has a excellent write up on the tune
6. Skeptical at 1st, as I was towards all tuners- now a believer
7. The few, the proud, an exclusive club
 
  #255  
Old 06-25-2010, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GMP - Matthew
Just had a chat with my client with the 997TT and tubi race exhaust before I picked it up,

He did a few runs this morning, wasn't able to get to a 130 today from 60 as he had to start braking at 125-128sih before having to slow down for traffic.

He did do 30-100 in 7 seconds. and 50 mph to 70 mph in 1.4 seconds.

Dan will down the data tonight when he gets home from the office and email it to me to post up. I have some classes for new dads this weekend and continue working on the nursery so it might be Monday before I can post them up. I do have some more quarter mile times to post up on the first page from a tip car running consistan 10.5-10.7 seconds.
Nice! Look forward to seeing the Pbox data and breakdown of results. How was the run done and what are the mods and octane used? You can compare it to my numbers and graph below.

30-100 (3<SUP>rd</SUP> gear, 0 shifts, 91 octane)
30-100 6.70s
40-100 5.12s
50-100 4.10s; 50-70 1.44s
60-100 3.38s
70-100 2.62s
80-100 1.90s
90-100 1.02s

Acceleration (10 mph delta)
30-40 1.58s
40-50 1.02s
50-60 0.72s
60-70 0.76s
70-80 0.72s
80-90 0.88s
90-100 1.02s<O</O<O</O
 
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