Speed21...
I really dont know why you dont believe my boost levels...However i saw what i wanted from these 2 dyno plots...Difference in hp and torque...difference that can tell 6,48 my car needs for 60-130...
Well done Matthew the difference in torque and hp is amazing...
Dont look at the numbers,they are a product of how each dyno is calibrated.when I tune a car I never care of absolute numbers,i just care for defferences before and after the tuning...This is what the customer will see on the road...

 

Actually, Keith references 7.1.5 in his original quote, not 7.1.1.
If he isn't going to bother engineers for specifics and post incorrect technical specs, then it becomes difficult to lend credence to his response.

 

[quote=skandalis447;2872540]Speed21...

I really dont know why you dont believe my boost levels...

quote]

Skandalis please understand that sooner or later it has to be established why such discrepancy exists between what you say and what APR and GMP say regarding boost.

I have no axe to grind or beef with you at all so please understand that. Im sure you are a really great guy but we all deserve to know whats going on here Skandalis. If you go right back to some of your earlier posts on other threads (cant remember the name of the thread...you may recall?) where you posted your 60 to 130 times and, following your post there was somewhat misbelief expressed from certain members and, the topic of your boost arose.
From that point onward this APR thread really began and those out there that have the understanding of what makes power in a 3.6 engine all question this 1 bar claim of yours. You simply cant make that level of torque and HP increase from just fuel spark and timming skandalis and even APR state 19 to 20psi so what gives???

I agree on one thing. We need an official response to your 1 bar boost claim to put this issue to bed once and for all.

Can you copy/paste your durametric data log showing this? Also what brand of mechanical guage did you use and where did you tap into. How did you watch the gauge? The engine sits at the very back so there would need to be a pipe all the way from the rear engine bar to where you sit. Would You really have gone to that much trouble? If you have then thanks but please give us some detail on that.

Also....that oil sample analysis. Im curious on those findings. Any chance of a copy paste on the document too?

 

+1. Couldn't agree more. One cannot over stress the importance of correctness and accuracy = credibility.

 

speed21...I really cant see any reason for me to keep up this conversation.Its your opinion not to believe my boost levels and probably my verified 60-130 time.On the other hand,i have no reason to write false data about boost...Because i dont really care what boost my car runs at...Please understand that I did not pay for the tune,it came with the car so I dont have any reason to support it just to think my money were placed on the best tune...I did all measurements of pressure in order to check out if my boost gauge was locked and not to convince you or any onetr about my cars boost levels...either way, I still have the fastest 997TT with stock turbos...So if you like another tune go ahead...But you will be around 1,5sec slower in 60-130 time...
P.S. about oil analysis everythimg was in order and if you read my thread about that you will see what was the problem...(read it it may happen to any 997TT).I will pm you oil analysis in order not to hijack this thread...

 

There is just no reasonable way to make that much more power and torque without MORE BOOST!!! That's why the topic has been beaten on so much. I know you've stated that you don't know how APR works and you don't care as long as it does work but that's just not good enough for many of us to believe without questions. I wonder if there are other mods to your car that you aren't aware of.

If you look at any industry out there where there are multiple options for performance enhancement you would see that people flock to the one that offers the best bang for the buck. If the 60-130 in the 6.5-7s range is verified by other members with exhaust and just APR ECU mod on pump gas (like you use, even if it is equivalent to 95 US octane) then why on earth would anyone mod the turbos or add bigger intercoolers etc...???

I'm sure the truth will come out in the near future. I second what speed21 stated (that he had no axe to grind with APR). Of course there is no axe to grind, but when a company makes really bold claims then they better back them up with more than flowery words.

 

For what it's worth, we dyno these 997TTs in 3rd gear as well. A 4th gear pull takes too long and heatsoaks the car, distorting the results.

As long as the dyno loads the car properly in 3rd gear, it's just fine for a pull.

 

Skandalis its your call whether you wish to be further involved here. No one is holding a gun to your head. I just thought that given you are central to one of the main questions here regarding this APR tune you would be willing to oblige the request of providing your durametric dat log read out to confirm your boost claim. That would do two things. Firstly it would clear up for the 6speeders involved in this dicussion (and the many hundreds reading from the sidelines) that the 1 bar boost you claim is in fact the case. Secondly, if it was formally established that what you say is in fact 100% correct it would then shift the boost question firmly back to APR for an answer why your tune only produces max 1 bar when they now have clearly stated that their tune is the same globally for all countries.

In so far as me personally believing your acceleration times i have no doubts that what you say is correct. You have afterall had this time verified. If you say you have no reason to make false claims over your boost then surely it would be no problem for you to allow all involved in this passionate discussion to be able to check you bonafides, similarly as what occured with your 60 to 130 times.

The oil sample was more so for my own interest however reflecting back over this thread TTdude had also raised question over the cause of the noise in your engine as being possibly associated to the APR tune. So, that said, you would not be hijacking this thread at all by copy pasting it here, more so clearing up for those others here who may also have thought the same as TT and clearing up the APR tune as well. Im sure Keith/APR and Matthew from GMP would both appreciate that as well.

Skandalis Im just being thorough here so to knock out all questions being raised over the APR tune and i thought that you of all people would be happy to oblige. If you are not, that is your decision, but in saying that it will leave a very dark cloud over your boost claims. Sorry..

 

I am unsure if anyone sees the obvious, but Skandalis has been secretly running a spiralmax.
http://www.spiralmax.com/

 

I'm not convinced - nice try though !!

 

I think most tuners on this forum use 4th gear pulls for better accuracy along with proper cooling as explained by Champion. Just look at all of Evoms' dynos and others as well.

 

You might have a point. My Ego had a hard time believing in APR because they associate with VW/Audi and not the likes of Ferrari and the other Italians. That being said, I stand by, our Greek friend Skand.. and his comments, and Matt at GMP. Having a APR tune, FVD exhaust and SACHS 2.5 clutch I look forward to more numbers from GMP to help me understand why I out perform similar P car tunes. I also regularly see 1.0 BAR on WOT and have on a very rare occasion seen the meter flash above this reading. I am in total agreement, personal first hand experience, with Skand in Greece on this matter.

 

Yes, third gear pulls are a band-aid for not having the right setup, or pdk car.

 

I think next time GMP goes to the dyno (or anyone with APr tune for that matter) they should have both AFR AND Boost logged and graphed. Despite APR's claims of variable boost for a given load, I think it will give everyone a better picture of how power levels are achieved. It can only help to answer one of the most persistent questions about this particular flash.

 

Thank you for your comment...You see some people find it very hard to believe that a tune is better than another...Also,because someone wrote that my car might have other parts installed,have in mind that APR does not have a flash for anything but stock 997TT VTGs...We have 12 997TT with APR here in Greece...all tip cars...all dash gauges show 1bar...i took the time and efford to plug durametric,piwis and gauge to see and verify boost level...but there is no difference for me whether it is 1 or 1,2 or 1,3bar...I just wrote what i saw...and that was 1bar...As for different boost levels you have to read and understand APR engineering concept in this tune so to see why boost at my car is 1,0bar but can go higher with worse conditions...(hot weather,lower quality fuel...)