My TT vs ferrari F430 Scuderia
#91
07-14-2010, 11:18 AM
About $53K and three and half months of waiting. Maybe the most expensive HP I've ever bought. It was much more of everything han I expected and not worth it - lots of delays, and all sorts of minor surprises
And ultimately I took a chance (so far so good and I've gone thourhg one 104 deg day in traffic) and kept the original valance and radiators, which means if I really ran the engine hard it might overheat, but that is not going to happen. I don't think I have florred it for more than 3 seconds at a time and never more than maybe 10 seconds within a minute.
And ultimately I took a chance (so far so good and I've gone thourhg one 104 deg day in traffic) and kept the original valance and radiators, which means if I really ran the engine hard it might overheat, but that is not going to happen. I don't think I have florred it for more than 3 seconds at a time and never more than maybe 10 seconds within a minute.
#92
07-14-2010, 11:23 AM
I certainly wasn't trying to give offense, just responding to the comment the way I saw it, and if you think an apology necessary I will freely offer one: I have no doubt your TT is faster than my Ferrari.
I'm in negotiations for an older unrestored but driveable Ferrari with 90+K miles on it, andthe price we are converging on is hovering around 2X what it sold for new. So the comment that Ferraris depreciate just struck me as definately not true. The 348-355-360s had a very expensive belt-change and such at intervals that put off a lot of people - that may be what you are referring to - and unfortunately a lot of folks who buy aren't the type who can handle or who plan for those things, so it probably did depress the market. The 430s and Scuds, etc., , and most older Ferraris, have timing chains and thus tend to have rather more reasonable 15K service costs, etc. Really classic ones, of course, have rare-part problems that put them well out of my ability to afford.
Anyway, I am not a big fan of the 996/997TT, but I know there are many people who like it a lot and I certainly respect that. Among Porsches I love the Cayman S and the GT3. I view the TT as a car that is already a bit "unbalanced "from the factory -- a lot of power but not as much of everything else added, almost like a factory tuner car. I really am not calling your baby ugly, by the way, just explaining what I have come to like myself in 40 years and 54 cars from
On another forum someone posted a table with a sorted list of times for three years of C&D's Lightning Lap tests of cars. This list fascinated me for many reasons. Among them, a Cayman S, a late 997S, and an early 997TT all posted the exacly the same time - the Cayman strikes me as the far better car, because of its balance. By the way, the gulf in that test between those three and the F430 (#5 or 6 on the list) makes my case for the difficulty any person has in adding balance after the factory builds the car: the F430 is basically a Cayman on steriods if you think about it, and turned in really excellent performance in spite of being no faster in a straight line than the Turbo. All the Hp in the world and aftermarket everything would be unlikely to make the TT in those tests gain that much time AND remain civilized enough to live with comfortably every day. That balance, and the fact that Motor Trend and C&D both mentioned they felt it was by far the easiest exotic to live with as a daily driver, are why I picked it over any other Ferrari. I jsut wish I hadn't bothered to spend all than money on the Scud engine upgrade - I never use the 22 HP and can't even tell it is there without a dyno, and it does nothing int he daily drive. If I had the money I wasted on it I'd have that older Ferrari now.
Anyway, didn't mean to rattle your cage . . .
I'm in negotiations for an older unrestored but driveable Ferrari with 90+K miles on it, andthe price we are converging on is hovering around 2X what it sold for new. So the comment that Ferraris depreciate just struck me as definately not true. The 348-355-360s had a very expensive belt-change and such at intervals that put off a lot of people - that may be what you are referring to - and unfortunately a lot of folks who buy aren't the type who can handle or who plan for those things, so it probably did depress the market. The 430s and Scuds, etc., , and most older Ferraris, have timing chains and thus tend to have rather more reasonable 15K service costs, etc. Really classic ones, of course, have rare-part problems that put them well out of my ability to afford.
Anyway, I am not a big fan of the 996/997TT, but I know there are many people who like it a lot and I certainly respect that. Among Porsches I love the Cayman S and the GT3. I view the TT as a car that is already a bit "unbalanced "from the factory -- a lot of power but not as much of everything else added, almost like a factory tuner car. I really am not calling your baby ugly, by the way, just explaining what I have come to like myself in 40 years and 54 cars from
On another forum someone posted a table with a sorted list of times for three years of C&D's Lightning Lap tests of cars. This list fascinated me for many reasons. Among them, a Cayman S, a late 997S, and an early 997TT all posted the exacly the same time - the Cayman strikes me as the far better car, because of its balance. By the way, the gulf in that test between those three and the F430 (#5 or 6 on the list) makes my case for the difficulty any person has in adding balance after the factory builds the car: the F430 is basically a Cayman on steriods if you think about it, and turned in really excellent performance in spite of being no faster in a straight line than the Turbo. All the Hp in the world and aftermarket everything would be unlikely to make the TT in those tests gain that much time AND remain civilized enough to live with comfortably every day. That balance, and the fact that Motor Trend and C&D both mentioned they felt it was by far the easiest exotic to live with as a daily driver, are why I picked it over any other Ferrari. I jsut wish I hadn't bothered to spend all than money on the Scud engine upgrade - I never use the 22 HP and can't even tell it is there without a dyno, and it does nothing int he daily drive. If I had the money I wasted on it I'd have that older Ferrari now.
Anyway, didn't mean to rattle your cage . . .
And I know Ferrari's hold their value well, my comment was more about them being mileage sensitive more so than other cars. So the Porsche may make a better bet for someone that is driving it quite a bit, they are mileage sensitive but less so than the Ferrari's typically.
Last edited by germeezy1; 07-14-2010 at 11:25 AM.
#93
07-14-2010, 11:50 AM
I know there are people who just love one marque or another. Makes life fun. I have a good friend that drives nothing but Audis - never has, never will.
I actually test drove a TT before deciding on the Ferrari: I have been surprised enough times by cars in the past to really reserach what I'm going to buy. It was time (3 years) to trade my Aston and I was considering everything -- actually leaning toward Ferrari now that I could afford just about anything, but . . .
I know that I am going to get flamed here for this, but . . . Anyway, I had traded a 996S on the Aston three years earlier (I had had the 996 for 3 years, good car if a bit sterile), and I recall when I first got the Aston I was shocked at how much better it handled (not rode, handled)--that car is vastly underappreciated for its balance and handling. Really a surprise: it just had a better suspension -- real A-arms all around, not struts, etc., and boy was that obvious when I drove it.
So a few months back when it was about time to buy again, stepping out of the Aston which was now familiar to me and into a 997TT for a test drive brought that difference back in spades. Next day I test drove a Maserati coupe (does nothing for me, although sumptuous interior), a DB9 (too heavy but otherwise fine, good V12 sound), and a Bentley (talk about heavy!). And a day later, the F430, which just was so much better balanced than even the Aston, or anything else that comfortable I had ever driven, I bought it within an hour. going to be hard to top it, but about 32 months from now, I'll be looking again.
I actually test drove a TT before deciding on the Ferrari: I have been surprised enough times by cars in the past to really reserach what I'm going to buy. It was time (3 years) to trade my Aston and I was considering everything -- actually leaning toward Ferrari now that I could afford just about anything, but . . .
I know that I am going to get flamed here for this, but . . . Anyway, I had traded a 996S on the Aston three years earlier (I had had the 996 for 3 years, good car if a bit sterile), and I recall when I first got the Aston I was shocked at how much better it handled (not rode, handled)--that car is vastly underappreciated for its balance and handling. Really a surprise: it just had a better suspension -- real A-arms all around, not struts, etc., and boy was that obvious when I drove it.
So a few months back when it was about time to buy again, stepping out of the Aston which was now familiar to me and into a 997TT for a test drive brought that difference back in spades. Next day I test drove a Maserati coupe (does nothing for me, although sumptuous interior), a DB9 (too heavy but otherwise fine, good V12 sound), and a Bentley (talk about heavy!). And a day later, the F430, which just was so much better balanced than even the Aston, or anything else that comfortable I had ever driven, I bought it within an hour. going to be hard to top it, but about 32 months from now, I'll be looking again.
#94
07-14-2010, 12:00 PM
I agree, the 996TT and 997 TT can feel strangely inert bone stock. But I have not driven a 997.2 PDK car which I am sure is very alive! The Aston does have a very good handling feel, but boy its lack of power is almost disheartening. I imagine a 4.7 car goes a long way to fix that.
The Bentley, now that car is a surprise ...no car that big and heavy has any right to carry that kind of speed through corners and punch out of them so well!
The Bentley, now that car is a surprise ...no car that big and heavy has any right to carry that kind of speed through corners and punch out of them so well!
#95
07-14-2010, 01:42 PM
I agree, the 996TT and 997 TT can feel strangely inert bone stock. But I have not driven a 997.2 PDK car which I am sure is very alive! The Aston does have a very good handling feel, but boy its lack of power is almost disheartening. I imagine a 4.7 car goes a long way to fix that.
The Bentley, now that car is a surprise ...no car that big and heavy has any right to carry that kind of speed through corners and punch out of them so well!
The Bentley, now that car is a surprise ...no car that big and heavy has any right to carry that kind of speed through corners and punch out of them so well!
The Bentley Continental Speed is proof that enough power can make anything move. I liked it a lot in many ways, and it is the only car I've seen built as well as the Aston, but it feels (and is) big, and not exactly a sports car. My wife also objected to it on "global emissions" grounds -- she's smart enough to figure out that moving 5,000 lbs fast will eat up a lot more natural resources than moving 3,000 lbs a bit faster. It is one of the few cars she has asked me not to buy.
#96
07-14-2010, 01:57 PM
Steering back to the OP first topic.... Its really weird that with all the success of our Porsche 997TT and proven results at the TX Mile and then Yousef posting these videos of his 997TT Tip kicking butt on low boost, that we have not sold more of these VR825 Kits... Price to high?
If anyone is interested in the kit, contact me and I will give you near cost. I would like to see 4 or 5 of these out there!
If anyone is interested in the kit, contact me and I will give you near cost. I would like to see 4 or 5 of these out there!
#97
07-14-2010, 02:10 PM
Steering back to the OP first topic.... Its really weird that with all the success of our Porsche 997TT and proven results at the TX Mile and then Yousef posting these videos of his 997TT Tip kicking butt on low boost, that we have not sold more of these VR825 Kits... Price to high?
If anyone is interested in the kit, contact me and I will give you near cost. I would like to see 4 or 5 of these out there!
If anyone is interested in the kit, contact me and I will give you near cost. I would like to see 4 or 5 of these out there!
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