Any feedback from others out there re: installation of guard LSD on all 997 cars. Ordered my lsd and was unable to install-3 technicians have tried without success-had to return the part back to Guard. Feedback from others with Guard LSD's would be appreciated. Disappointed

 

Chances are you need to change the technicians for someone competent! Your car has what gearbox?

 

6 speed

 

Has been a couple of weeks-so far no resolution or feedback on the issue from Guard.

 

Matt at Guard says it fit but it isn't the exact same dimensions as the factory diff and the axle spacing wasn't correct. Will take another shot at it.

 

Just got and installed an LSD from Guard. An LSD is not always the most straightforward thing to install but Matt was very quick to answer any queries I had... even with the 14 hour time difference . Hope it all works out for you.

 

That's funny because I haven't been contacted. In fact I sent an email to the shop when the LSD showed up and haven't heard back from them. That was over two weeks ago. I've gotten nothing but silence from the guys who were attempting the install.

But since you've taken this to the internet instead of giving me the courtesy of a phone call I'm gonna upload a couple of pictures so you can see what kind of condition the LSD was in when it was returned to me...

 

So,
Whenever a product is returned to me for whatever reason it's given a thorough inspection. When it's an LSD part of that inspection is to completely disassemble it. I did that with this one, just like I always do. What follows is what I found inside...




What you see here are the center cups, also know as the ramps. See all that particulate there?


Here's a close up for you to better see. They are metal shavings, like someone chased some threads down into the inside of the LSD. I know for a fact that this was not present when it left my place because I stack every single LSD to order for the customer. I was inside of this LSD prior to it shipping up to Canada and there was no metal inside of this thing. I don't know what the installer was up to or how this happened but if this was installed like this, while it probably wouldn't do much damage to the LSD, if that stuff got out into the gearbox and into your bearings you'd be looking at a full rebuild on the box. Not pretty to say the least.

In closing, I do not intend to sell any more LSDs to this particular shop (who I will not name because that's not my style and I am not going to go bashing someone on the internet). But when I am attacked, and especially so without even being contacted, you can be sure that I am going to stand up and tell my side of the story.

If you talk to transmission guys, they know that the turbo differential is offset from the GT3 differential by about 2mm. To put in either a factory LSD or one of ours requires moving things by that much +/-. I say plus or minus because a good tranny guy also knows that every single ring and pinion set is different and each installation requires measuring and adjusting, sometimes by a 1/10th of a mm. There are special factory tools for making these measurements and setting this stuff up. Some guys have them. Some guys don't. When you go to get an LSD installed, any LSD not just ours, be sure to interview your installer and make sure that they know what they are doing. In this instance the car owner got off easy because the car was returned to him in good running order. Other people have not been so lucky. I recently spoke to a guy who bought a competitor's LSD and took it to his local wrench to have it put in. The ring gear wasn't set right and the thing ate itself in less than 5000 miles!!! That's what happens when an LSD install goes bad, the ring and pinion dies a quick and loud death. This is why I always tell people that specialist installation is required. Make sure you are dealing with a specialist, and if you aren't keep shopping.

 

Hi Matt
Bottom line: should have called u directly. Am sorry-just trying to get feedback from others who have used ur product-as the reason I trialled ur LSD in the 1st place-is I heard it was the best in the business. I am a perfectionist -u can tell -as I have carefully researched each single mod I have done. Still willing to trial the Guard LSD-if u give me another crack at it. Am a physician and know little about the technicals of cars-all I know is what I feel when I drive. I do not want to be harmed in the process of upgrading my 997 TT. Appreciate ur feedback.

 

Interesting result-- needless to say I am not surprised. Plenty claim expertise and charge accordingly -- the shame of it here is the customer has paid for that incompetence.
What amazes me is that so called "mechanics" did not even make a call to supplier to get his expertise to solve the problem-- tends to indicate that they could not even analyse what the problem was!! Maybe they should stick to replacing factory parts at the dealership!!

 

Matt at GT has an extremely good rep in the racing world. I would be happy to have any of his parts installed in my car at anytime, not only am I a physician...but a surgeon, so I'm even more particular. Not that it matters. It's always best to call directly rather than emailing imo. Sounds like your shop let the junior most guy do the procedure, as particular as you are, I'd seek out another shop. jmo
c
btw Matt, do you guys rebuild stock lsd's, mine's shot I do believe.

 

Spent over a half hour on the phone with Matt discussing products for a 2010 Gt3 and I never even bought anything (not because I wont). From someone who is an endodontist (we deal in + or - .5mm) Matt is really really detailed oriented and his reputation in the P world is beyond question. Sounds like your shop was pretty clueless in the install. Get the car shipped to him or go to someone HE recommends.

 

Thanks for the words of support guys.

TT Surgeon,
Take a look over in the GT3 forum for a thread titled "LSD Buster". The short answer is we absolutely do rebuild factory LSDs. The long answer is that thread.

I also want to mention something else. I did a little homework yesterday and now have an explanation for the shavings. As was my initial assumption, I am now pretty sure what I found was from cutting the threads in the LSD. For many years now Porsche has used M10 x 85 bolts to attach the axle flanges to their differentials. This is what we have always used as well.

At some point in the recent past Porsche (997T.2) changed that bolt to a finer thread pitch. But it's not in PET. The 997T.1 still shows the same M10 x 85 bolts that were previously used. 997T.2 PET doesn't currently have enough detail on this gearbox to include that information. Unless there's a technical service bulletin that I don't know about, Porsche didn't tell people about the change. It's something techs are learning about on the fly as they take apart the newest cars.

When installing our LSD into any of the later (996 and 997) cars that have a "bump" inside of the differential, you've got to use 10mm longer bolts to compensate for that. One solution, that many shops use is a set of early G50 axle flanges and bolts. Howeever, what happens more often is the shop just gets new bolts from their local metric fastener supplier that are 10mm longer. I suspect that the reason this issue hasn't come up before is because they just go get M10 x 85 like they always have. In this instance it appears that is not what was being used.

So, the LSD ended up cross thread with bolts of the wrong pitch. I'm not perfect and can absolutely acknowledge that I don't alway know all the answers. I learn new things all the time and didn't know about this change in thread pitch until yesterday.

But what really irks me is not just that the shop made no mention of this either before or during the return of the LSD, and would have had me reselling this timebomb of an LSD to some other unlucky fellow. What really gets me is they didn't have the good sense to disassemble the thing before they recut the threads they had cross-threaded with the wrong bolts. You would never recut and chase a set of threads into the main crankcase of an engine without first taking it apart. What makes one think that you can chase threads down into the body of the LSD without consequence? This is an oversite of the caliber of a high school automotive class. I do not expect this sort of thing, which I will term either mechanical laziness or mechanical ignorance, from an established and professional operation. Missing the change in thread pitch is something even the best mechanic could do. But how this was handled after the fact is just plain wrong. It's this that I really take issue with and why I cannot in good faith send our products to this shop in the future for installation.

 

I just want to update this thread. The shop has owned up to chasing the threads down into the LSD. They have agreed to cover the cost of replacement of the damaged parts. The customer is willing to give them another chance to get this LSD installed in his car after I personally inspect his stock differential, which they are shipping to me on their dime. I thought it important to share this because while people so often say bad things about each other on the internet, when someone steps up and owns their part in a problem it rarely gets reported. I want people to know the shop is trying to do the right thing here.

 

I have had my Guard LSD in my 2006 997S for 3 months and it is awesome! I was amazed how much it improved braking. I was looking for it to help accelerating out of corners, which it does. But the change in handling under hard braking is a big and not fully anticipated bonus.

Matt was a big help in ordering process.