1st High-Powered (Ethanol) E85 Porsche 997 Turbo by Prototech & Protomotive
#61
08-05-2010, 11:44 AM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 224
Rep Power: 66 
The stock injectors in the 997tt ARE NOT 80 lb.
The stock injector size on the 997 Turbo are 60 lb. I may be a tad bit off but Im almost certain that is what they are.
The 80 lb injectors would be an aftermarket upgrade. You can go 80 lb or 100 lb.
The 2 pumps on the 997 Turbo flow way more than the stock fuel pumps that are found in the 996tt. The factory 997tt pumps have proven to support 1000 crank horsepower on (MS109) without any changes. Depending on the E85 setup, the stock pumps may do the trick.
I believe Todd is out of town this week and will be back on Monday 8/16/10. Give him a call at that time and Im sure he could help.
The stock injector size on the 997 Turbo are 60 lb. I may be a tad bit off but Im almost certain that is what they are.
The 80 lb injectors would be an aftermarket upgrade. You can go 80 lb or 100 lb.
The 2 pumps on the 997 Turbo flow way more than the stock fuel pumps that are found in the 996tt. The factory 997tt pumps have proven to support 1000 crank horsepower on (MS109) without any changes. Depending on the E85 setup, the stock pumps may do the trick.
I believe Todd is out of town this week and will be back on Monday 8/16/10. Give him a call at that time and Im sure he could help.
#62
08-05-2010, 11:48 AM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 224
Rep Power: 66
Whats up Chris?
Thanks man. A few more details and it will be 100%.
Thanks man. A few more details and it will be 100%.
#64
08-05-2010, 05:49 PM
that is right by me.. Is it a gas station ? Arco ? or AirGas ?
Last edited by AriS4; 08-06-2010 at 09:52 AM.
#65
08-08-2010, 02:57 PM
i see city workers, buses pump their gas there. there is only a couple of pumps there it should say e85 on it. im only a couple of miles from there
#66
08-09-2010, 07:45 PM
Keithta
Spoke to Todd this morning on getting a 93 tune and a E85 tune with stock(60 lbs) injectors.
After further discussion we decided to upgrade to 5 Bar FPR as the only mod replacing the stock 3.8 Bar FPR.
This should be an easy install that I should be able to do, any pointers/tips appreciated.
Todd was willing to under take the E85 tune project although it would be more work him.
The target is to to see how far we can push boost before we run out of injectors.
This should be fun project, stay tuned.
When we run out of injectors, I will be upgrading my injectors to 80lbs
Spoke to Todd this morning on getting a 93 tune and a E85 tune with stock(60 lbs) injectors.
After further discussion we decided to upgrade to 5 Bar FPR as the only mod replacing the stock 3.8 Bar FPR.
This should be an easy install that I should be able to do, any pointers/tips appreciated.
Todd was willing to under take the E85 tune project although it would be more work him.
The target is to to see how far we can push boost before we run out of injectors.
This should be fun project, stay tuned.
When we run out of injectors, I will be upgrading my injectors to 80lbs
#67
08-10-2010, 06:34 AM
That is un-be-lieve-able!!! What a rocket and such a sleeper excepting that wicked sound of course. Talking about breaking new ground!! That is totally awesome. Hats off to Proto and Proto.. well done guys!! 
. Talking about breaking new ground!! That is totally awesome. Hats off to Proto and Proto.. well done guys!!
#68
08-10-2010, 06:41 AM
lol.
Hey just thinking out loud TT...just imagine if only 1 bar can really make 865nm then 2 would be 1730nms. Looks like Cape Canaveral is next stop
.
Hey just thinking out loud TT...just imagine if only 1 bar can really make 865nm then 2 would be 1730nms. Looks like Cape Canaveral is next stop
.
#69
08-10-2010, 07:02 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NYC : Miami
Age: 45
Posts: 1,971
Rep Power: 126
wow, very nice thread, awesome right up, the car looks incredible and the video of you running through the gears really shows how quick the car gets up to speed. Really impressive build, enjoy it in good health
#70
08-14-2010, 09:34 PM
Just throught some of you with less extreme setups may want to know this:
Before diving deep into this project, we first set out to find out the upper limits of the 80 lb injectors that were in place in my car. With my gt3076 turbos on a completely stock fuel system, Todd designed an E85 tune that allowed us to run up to 1.2 bar of boost before we ran out of injector.
Todd has since made a few adjustments to the file and now has a setup that can run atleast 1.4 bar+ on 997s running the VTG turbos using the same 80 lb injectors. Should be the perfect setup for cars with basic to moderate mods with minimal changes to the factory fuel system.
In conversation, Todd mentioned that while remotely tuning some 997tt's, he had come across data logs of some cars out in California and some other areas that were showing a meager 0-5 degrees total timing at WOT due to the low grade 91 octane thats available in certain locations.
Because of fuel quality, some modded 997tt's cant even get out of the upper 400 whp range. By switching over to e85, people in locations that only have access to 91 octane can realize 600 whp numbers by running E85 without making any other changes. Power increases are linked to the cooling effects of ethanol and from the factory DME automatically bumping timing numbers dramatically.
If youre not sure if E85 is available in your area, check out www.e85fuel.com and click on your state for a list of stations that carry it.
Before diving deep into this project, we first set out to find out the upper limits of the 80 lb injectors that were in place in my car. With my gt3076 turbos on a completely stock fuel system, Todd designed an E85 tune that allowed us to run up to 1.2 bar of boost before we ran out of injector.
Todd has since made a few adjustments to the file and now has a setup that can run atleast 1.4 bar+ on 997s running the VTG turbos using the same 80 lb injectors. Should be the perfect setup for cars with basic to moderate mods with minimal changes to the factory fuel system.
In conversation, Todd mentioned that while remotely tuning some 997tt's, he had come across data logs of some cars out in California and some other areas that were showing a meager 0-5 degrees total timing at WOT due to the low grade 91 octane thats available in certain locations.
Because of fuel quality, some modded 997tt's cant even get out of the upper 400 whp range. By switching over to e85, people in locations that only have access to 91 octane can realize 600 whp numbers by running E85 without making any other changes. Power increases are linked to the cooling effects of ethanol and from the factory DME automatically bumping timing numbers dramatically.
If youre not sure if E85 is available in your area, check out www.e85fuel.com and click on your state for a list of stations that carry it.
Update Todd was able to provided E85 Tune with
set for 1.3 Bar(19+ psi) Standard and 1.5 Bar(22+ psi) Sport mode
Look at the numbers on my standard run, timing holds steady @17.25
under max boost 19+psi and load 218.
Speed Load I angle I time lambda PressureAFR Boost
4604.75 131.32 28.5 14.37 0.86353 1590 12.693891 8.845
4642.5 138.19 27 15.19 0.85034 1670 12.499998 10.005
4663.25 146.32 24.75 16.05 0.83716 1760 12.306252 11.31
4693 154.95 24 16.78 0.81738 1870 12.015486 12.905
4725.75 163.71 22.5 17.86 0.81934 1960 12.044298 14.21
4763.5 174.05 21.75 19.41 0.83325 2060 12.248775 15.66
4782.75 182.74 19.5 19.87 0.80493 2140 11.832471 16.82
4833.5 192.68 18 21.34 0.8208 2230 12.06576 18.125
4860 204.63 17.25 22.18 0.79736 2290 11.721192 18.995
4907.5 213.75 17.25 22.96 0.79102 2320 11.627994 19.43
4916.25 218.39 17.25 22.75 0.76685 2310 11.272695 19.285
4959.25 216.54 17.25 21.37 0.7312 2250 10.74864 18.415
4988 211.31 17.25 20.4 0.72925 2190 10.719975 17.545
5013 204.63 17.25 19.67 0.7395 2140 10.87065 16.82
5053.5 199.85 17.25 19.55 0.76343 2120 11.222421 16.53
5076 196.59 17.25 19.52 0.77979 2110 11.462913 16.385
5134.5 195.14 17.25 18.7 0.75757 2120 11.136279 16.53
5148.25 196.01 17.25 19.63 0.79736 2130 11.721192 16.675
5181.25 197.72 17.25 20.78 0.83203 2150 12.230841 16.965
5232.25 199.48 17.25 20.41 0.80688 2170 11.861136 17.255
5268.5 202.43 17.25 19.81 0.77368 2190 11.373096 17.545
5298.75 204.35 17.25 19.54 0.76196 2200 11.200812 17.69
5310 206.44 17.25 20.2 0.78564 2200 11.548908 17.69
5348.5 206.86 17.25 20.93 0.8103 2190 11.91141 17.545
5398.25 206.32 17.25 20.09 0.78198 2190 11.495106 17.545
Look at the numbers on my sport run, here too timing holds steady @17.25 under max boost 21+ psi and load 237.
Speed Load I angle I time Lamda Pressure AFR Boost
4369.75 189.66 18 21.24 0.85132 2260 12.514404 18.56
4455.5 199.29 17.25 21.7 0.80298 2340 11.803806 19.72
4575.25 209.04 17.25 22.18 0.7854 2400 11.54538 20.59
4693.75 219.38 17.25 22.91 0.77686 2450 11.419842 21.315
4859 230.53 17.25 23.99 0.78149 2470 11.487903 21.605
5003 237.05 17.25 24.09 0.76587 2430 11.258289 21.025
5106 229.64 17.25 21.79 0.72534 2350 10.662498 19.865
5115.5 220.22 17.25 20.3 0.72314 2260 10.630158 18.56
5157.75 208.92 17.25 18.86 0.72437 2150 10.648239 16.965
5099.75 197.88 17.25 18.58 0.76855 2090 11.297685 16.095
5114.5 188.41 17.25 18.43 0.79907 2080 11.746329 15.95
5086.25 184.45 18 18.36 0.81323 2100 11.954481 16.24
5145 182.98 18.75 17.13 0.771 2130 11.3337 16.675
5230 184.57 18.75 18.96 0.80957 2150 11.900679 16.965
5286.5 186.3 18 19.21 0.83911 2170 12.334917 17.255
5361.25 187.92 18 19.34 0.83667 2180 12.299049 17.4
5452.5 189.45 17.25 18.25 0.78833 2190 11.588451 17.545
5509 190.95 17.25 17.42 0.75854 2200 11.150538 17.69
5549.25 192.94 17.25 19.23 0.81299 2220 11.950953 17.98
5621.75 193.08 17.25 18.78 0.80371 2220 11.814537 17.98
5665 192.49 17.25 17.7 0.77002 2220 11.319294 17.98
5747 192.23 17.25 17.92 0.79297 2220 11.656659 17.98
5787 191.25 17.25 17.92 0.7981 2210 11.73207 17.835
Sport run showing higher boost, here too timing holds steady @17.25 under max boost 22+ and load.
Speed Load I angle I time Lamda Pressure AFR Boost
3687.75 173.7 23.25 18.22 0.82837 2150 12.177039 16.965
3705.25 177.61 21.75 18.67 0.81812 2190 12.026364 17.545
3730.75 181.83 21 19.44 0.83423 2240 12.263181 18.27
3771.75 185.77 20.25 19.83 0.81934 2290 12.044298 18.995
3816 189.84 18.75 20.29 0.81177 2330 11.933019 19.575
3833.75 194.81 18 20.39 0.7854 2390 11.54538 20.445
3864.5 200.23 18 20.97 0.78833 2420 11.588451 20.88
3926.25 205.45 18 21.32 0.77881 2480 11.448507 21.75
3977 211.55 18 21.96 0.78369 2510 11.520243 22.185
4016.5 206.65 18 21.72 0.79395 2510 11.671065 22.185
4004.25 198.19 17.25 20.91 0.79639 2470 11.706933 21.605
4065 193.64 17.25 20.29 0.78833 2420 11.588451 20.88
4087.5 195.94 17.25 20.29 0.78149 2390 11.487903 20.445
4115 194.39 17.25 20.09 0.78247 2370 11.502309 20.155
4161 193.97 17.25 20.29 0.79663 2380 11.710461 20.3
4217.75 195.61 17.25 20.36 0.78955 2370 11.606385 20.155
4243 195.68 17.25 20.77 0.81299 2380 11.950953 20.3
4284.25 195.82 17.25 20.84 0.80957 2380 11.900679 20.3
4294 196.45 17.25 20.8 0.80029 2390 11.764263 20.445
4365.25 197.34 17.25 20.72 0.79248 2390 11.649456 20.445
4376.75 197.16 17.25 20.78 0.79736 2400 11.721192 20.59
4440.25 197.74 17.25 20.8 0.79395 2400 11.671065 20.59
4486.5 212.65 17.25 22.54 0.80151 2410 11.782197 20.735
4508.5 218.25 17.25 23.14 0.80029 2410 11.764263 20.735
Folks with access to E85 now you can run E85 with out upgrading
injectors, it is like running race gas see my timings above.
Keith thanks
for the post on E85 Tune, was looking for a E85 Tuneand could not find a tuner who could until now Protomotive/Todd.
Last edited by venkatreddytx; 08-14-2010 at 09:36 PM.
#71
08-15-2010, 09:56 AM
this is awesome. Not enough E85 out here on the east coast in my area. One thing, I think your consumption figures will slide a bit as you'll probably get considerably less MPG with E85 than the race gas, no? IE you'll use more than 87.5 gallons per month of E85. this link here shows a 26% reduction in MPG. Still worth it though, IMO.
derived this number from dividing miles driven by gallons added (120/8=15). My on board computer shows
15.2 mpg on E85 and showed 15.2 mpg on 93 Oct.
I have run this by a couple of people and they suggested a properly tuned forced induction should not loose mpg
compared to gasoline, different matter entirely on normally aspirated.
In my case went from $2.95 a gallon 93 to $2.21 a gallon E85 with no loss in mpg, more dollars in my pockets.
#72
09-21-2010, 04:16 PM
Has anyone thought about long-term impact of running E85 on stock engines? I am still under the impression that E85 is highly corrosive on the engines and fuel lines that were not specifically built to handle this kind of fuel.
#73
09-21-2010, 04:19 PM
Been running it for 3 years as daily driver in an Evo and 0 issues.. Ethanol is not highly corrosive.. We have a Gt3 with over 10k miles on it as well with no issues so far.. if anything when the motors are opened they are so clean compared to gas i only see advantages and 0 disadvantages other than the need for a larger fuel system to support it..
#74
09-21-2010, 05:47 PM
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida
Posts: 224
Rep Power: 66
Here is an informative video that should clear up concerns with running E85 in non-flex fuel vehicles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuOs1yap8mU
#75
09-21-2010, 06:10 PM
Wow !! this stuff sounds good i'm gonna check into this ,is the there a switchable handheld device for going from E85 to 91 octane i already have a Proto tune & wonder what it would take to make the switch.