Tuning and the Real Facts
#46
Sure, I will have to take a few.
I would also just like to say that I try and stop in when I can to answer question. This though is in between working as I'm not typically on the internet all day.
#47
An engine dyno is definitely the best yet you have to pull the engine.
#48
Yes it's part of the dealer's Scan Tool software. It's job is to determine whether the ECU has been compromised, very sophisticated, really can't be beaten. Even if you swop out ECU's the counters in the system will be off. This is even if the Porsche dealer does it. The difference is if they replace it for whatever reason they notate it in the system so your warranty won't be voided downline. In other words it can't be beaten/changed even by them. Again, PCNA usually doesn't even ask the dealer to go looking there on a warranty claim if they're a reliable dealer that doesn't turn in unreasonable amounts of claims... In other words the "Watch Dog" doesn't just pop up when they plug in to the OBD port.
#49
As I understand it, yes it does show up. It may be different now with the new ECU's and the way they try to get around the counters but I don't think so. I know Stephen at Imagine swore up and down it wouldn't show up on an old 996 I had, well it did...
Scott needs to answer this. I've found all of these tuners pretty much allude the question. For instance, the way Champion has dealt with this issue is not by claiming it's undetectable but by issuing a warranty for the length of the factory warranty themselves if something was to go wrong. I'm in no way endorsing them or implying who's best, just trying to answer your question... However I do feel their approach does deal with the issue at hand IF their warranty is what they claim it is.
Scott, would you please put this to rest for us. Is it cloak-able or not? Do re-flashes, flipped ECU's, proper flashing go unseen or not?
Scott needs to answer this. I've found all of these tuners pretty much allude the question. For instance, the way Champion has dealt with this issue is not by claiming it's undetectable but by issuing a warranty for the length of the factory warranty themselves if something was to go wrong. I'm in no way endorsing them or implying who's best, just trying to answer your question... However I do feel their approach does deal with the issue at hand IF their warranty is what they claim it is.
Scott, would you please put this to rest for us. Is it cloak-able or not? Do re-flashes, flipped ECU's, proper flashing go unseen or not?
#50
Lets just say that for every front door there is usually a back one also and different levels of access. Porsche cant as a rule retrieve lost Imob codes on DME's, alter hrs, Over revs etc yet it can be done, not by them though. Many times a Dealer enters a wrong code or exceeds the 3 programming rule and ask for assistance.
The Watchdog or DME monitoring is largely on itself and independent among the other control units. The issue with using a different DME is simply the other units do not increment with them so it is a given as an example that a car with 10 hrs couldn't have 10k miles on it or 300 in another registry etc. Porsche does replace DME's under warranty so the counter for that DME would be 0 yet it is recorded in the history of the car.
A simple rule of thumb is ALL tuned files are detectable period yet there is a difference in a correct Porsche file and how it is loaded as to if it is out of sequence. A tuned file can be detected by its simple binary or even CVN that is viewable on a PIWIS yet you have to know what the correct code is to verify. The PIWIS used to do this however starting in version 18 it was dropped so that it was not readily checkable and used by others.
The Watchdog or DME monitoring is largely on itself and independent among the other control units. The issue with using a different DME is simply the other units do not increment with them so it is a given as an example that a car with 10 hrs couldn't have 10k miles on it or 300 in another registry etc. Porsche does replace DME's under warranty so the counter for that DME would be 0 yet it is recorded in the history of the car.
A simple rule of thumb is ALL tuned files are detectable period yet there is a difference in a correct Porsche file and how it is loaded as to if it is out of sequence. A tuned file can be detected by its simple binary or even CVN that is viewable on a PIWIS yet you have to know what the correct code is to verify. The PIWIS used to do this however starting in version 18 it was dropped so that it was not readily checkable and used by others.
Last edited by Softronic; 10-07-2010 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Added Text
#51
Thanks Scott. This is pretty much exactly what I said but explained in greater detail. Once again, the good thing is Porsche doesn't go looking for these things usually. For instance, I had to have a brand new X50 motor replaced under warranty on a past 996 due to internal bearing issues. It was a 54K motor. Porsche never asked the tech to go look and see if had been modded (in this case it had not) and just sent the brand new motor in overnight. I had another 6-speed 996 in the past that had the second gear pop out issue. It was modded but Porsche never asked anyone to look and just replaced the transmission.
Anyway don't want to hijack and get off topic however this is a big deal to a lot of people who are, or will be, reading this thread. The good thing is the GT1 motor and package seems to be very reliable even pushed to the limit hence quelling some of the fears brought on by modding the earlier 996's which had issues even w/o modding them... In other words modding a 997.1 seems to be much less risky.
Anyway don't want to hijack and get off topic however this is a big deal to a lot of people who are, or will be, reading this thread. The good thing is the GT1 motor and package seems to be very reliable even pushed to the limit hence quelling some of the fears brought on by modding the earlier 996's which had issues even w/o modding them... In other words modding a 997.1 seems to be much less risky.
#52
Lets just say that for every front door there is usually a back one also and different levels of access. Porsche cant as a rule retrieve lost Imob codes on DME's, alter hrs, Over revs etc yet it can be done, not by them though. Many times a Dealer enters a wrong code or exceeds the 3 programming rule and ask for assistance.
The Watchdog or DME monitoring is largely on itself and independent among the other control units. The issue with using a different DME is simply the other units do not increment with them so it is a given as an example that a car with 10 hrs couldn't have 10k miles on it or 300 in another registry etc. Porsche does replace DME's under warranty so the counter for that DME would be 0 yet it is recorded in the history of the car.
A simple rule of thumb is ALL tuned files are detectable period yet there is a difference in a correct Porsche file and how it is loaded as to if it is out of sequence. A tuned file can be detected by its simple binary or even CVN that is viewable on a PIWIS yet you have to know what the correct code is to verify. The PIWIS used to do this however starting in version 18 it was dropped so that it was not readily checkable and used by others.
The Watchdog or DME monitoring is largely on itself and independent among the other control units. The issue with using a different DME is simply the other units do not increment with them so it is a given as an example that a car with 10 hrs couldn't have 10k miles on it or 300 in another registry etc. Porsche does replace DME's under warranty so the counter for that DME would be 0 yet it is recorded in the history of the car.
A simple rule of thumb is ALL tuned files are detectable period yet there is a difference in a correct Porsche file and how it is loaded as to if it is out of sequence. A tuned file can be detected by its simple binary or even CVN that is viewable on a PIWIS yet you have to know what the correct code is to verify. The PIWIS used to do this however starting in version 18 it was dropped so that it was not readily checkable and used by others.
#53
As an example someone could have a tuned file in their car and it would be any including mine. Should the car race as stock it would fail. Now if it was flashed back to original and I pulled the entire binary and checked the indexes etc it would be fine.
I would rather discuss general questions etc than my specific software as I do not want this as a sales or promotion for any company.
#54
But wouldn't the mileage logged still be off?
Scott, I don't think anybody is going to think you're bending this towards yourself. Many have wanted to understand this specific subject for a long time. If you're indeed one of the blessed few that can overcome the ECU modding/unmodding dilemma then so be it.... That's a good thing to know.
Scott, I don't think anybody is going to think you're bending this towards yourself. Many have wanted to understand this specific subject for a long time. If you're indeed one of the blessed few that can overcome the ECU modding/unmodding dilemma then so be it.... That's a good thing to know.
#55
Could you further explain the "128MB" vs "1MB" reading of the DME files? Why is it that diffcult to read it entirely?
PS: Have features like post cat O2's disable/lauch control anything to do with the ability to fully read the DME?
PS: Have features like post cat O2's disable/lauch control anything to do with the ability to fully read the DME?
#56
But wouldn't the mileage logged still be off?
Scott, I don't think anybody is going to think you're bending this towards yourself. Many have wanted to understand this specific subject for a long time. If you're indeed one of the blessed few that can overcome the ECU modding/unmodding dilemma then so be it.... That's a good thing to know.
Scott, I don't think anybody is going to think you're bending this towards yourself. Many have wanted to understand this specific subject for a long time. If you're indeed one of the blessed few that can overcome the ECU modding/unmodding dilemma then so be it.... That's a good thing to know.
Thanks,
Scott
#58
Perhaps you could tell me which DME or car? You said 1MB so I think it is a 7.8 that you are referring to as per your car listed.. The 128 was most likely 128K?
Last edited by Softronic; 10-07-2010 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Text Added
#60
I noticed your last post on times congrats .
The EU2 files basically do not have the "Tank Ready status" or also known as fuel tank evap system nor the "Secondary 02 Sensors" for Catalytic converter efficiency. The EU4 cars are about the same as the LEV North America versions. You could though change an LEV or EU4 to a EU2 version if you wanted by deleting these in a tune. The older ROW cars had no emissions features while the LEV versions always have.
Just for reference there are other sub versions of these like the one for Japan that decreases emissions at idle. They are though under these sub categories of EU4 or EU2.