Hey fellows!

I love this forum to death. It is my everyday must read web site.
I had my Europipe EP1 installed two months ago and I am happy with the sound it produces. But I think my stock C63 sounds more aggressive. Anyway,
I am thinking to get an ECU upgrade for my car. I know I may get flamed for asking this. Since there are so many different brands out there. I don't want to mess up the VTG and I don't plan to upgrade the brakes (yet)

I already think the stock VTG are a bit too fast for me LOL
What are the pros and cons for upgrading the ECU?
What are the " real " gains I would get from upgrading ECU alone?
currently 12500miles and running strong.

 

I have the EPL tune on my car and love it! It is a different car, Brings the beast out. I am waiting on my exhaust it should be hear Monday, and then I will make a post with some data from my drift box to show some results. Tony is awesome to work with and he does an awesome time tunning to make sure your car is not only safe but fast!
Matt

 

The big 4: EVOMS, GIAC, Protomotive, Switzer.
Just exhaust and ECU (stage 2): All pros, no cons. Near 100% reliability.
Stage 2 gain: roughly, more or less, approximately, 10%. More importantly is the subjective feel. Lag should be nearly eliminated and car feels like it's going downhill all the times. The difference is significant and easily noticeable.

I have question for you: How does stock C63 sound more "aggressive" than the Europipe? Loudness or low frequency grunt?

 

It just sounds louder and more growls than my EP1. Europipe definitely got lower frequency in my opinion. I personally likes 430, M3, M5, C63's sound. I guess I am more toward high pitch notes?

 

EP2 should have been your choice then.

 

Choose the ecu upgrade that will offer local customer support. As you say the stock ecu is plenty fast, leave it stock if there is any question.

 

Cons; a lot of the off the shelf generic ecu tunes just give you a bunch of boost up front, then the ecu pulls back the timing to save the engine. The car actually ends up being slower than stock. Also, you want to be sure they don't simply turn off the 02 sensors, or increase the threshold, as the car will never pass emissions, they don't tell you that part. If you decide to do it, I would suggest a custom tune by somebody local, preferably who actually races porsches as opposed to installing 24s on escalades. You get what you pay for in this case. Ck out the thread over on rennlist, might change your mind about the ecu.

 

I would highly consider GIAC. This is why they are different then the rest:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...orsport-7.html
We wanted to take the time out to give a special thanks to our tuning partner GIAC. Throughout our testing and development we have found that the GIAC data logging acquisition software is by far one of the greatest tools available in order to acquire accurate real time data from our Test Vehicle while on the dyno. Our technical team has compared this resolution of this data logger to be on par with what we used in the Audi R8 and R10 ALMS race cars. With that being said GIAC is able to optimize the power and efficiency of our hardware without compromising the integrity of the platform.

Please feel free to drop me a pm with any questions that you might have.


Champion

 

I've heard AMG Mercedes -- very surprised to hear that your C63 is louder than Europipe. Are you talking *stock* C63? Is the EP1 that quiet sounding?

As far as frequency of sound, it is RPM related. At low rpm, low frequency/throaty sound dominates (that menacing bubbling made famous by American V8), as RPM climbs, a good exhaust (to me) would transition to a high pitch scream, almost terrifying in a tunnel, like a race car. A fast climb up the RPM should cause a jet like sound.
In other words you should be able to have your cake and eat it too.

 

! ! !

 

To answer the bolded text.

1) Making a comparison between a naturally aspirated AMG V8 and a 6 cyl P turbo will always have the atmo engine win on sound in the same way a GT3 will always sound better than the turbo. The turbo wins on street cred tho and, will still produce a damn good sound with an EP1....no question. The upside being still able to use the car as a daily drive car in any situation....which is what differs a P turbo from a ferrari or other similar exotic. No sense relegating a P Turbo into a vehicle that is only tolerable for a short period in the seat by turning it into a raucous droning hotrod. That would be defeated the very purpose it was designed for.

2) On the ECU you need to consider the practicality of having a mod that cant be switched back without removing the ecu. That limits the types of tunes naturally.

3) You will need a heavy duty clutch and some plugs.

These are all very high revving naturally aspirated engines....excepting the V8. So for the turbo to replicate the same high pitched scream with having a redline of 6800rpm then i dont know about that. I know mine sure screams loud enough when i give it its head....maybe not as loud on the inside (i'm happy about that)....but as ive said before you cant be in two places at the same time. If you stand on the sidewalk and have someone drive your P Turbo at full noise in a second or 3rd gear pull i can garrantee you you will be saying F thats loud...and F that sound good. And thats pretty well all that matters. So, would you want it any louder? ....well maybe if you were on the racetrack trying to compete with the high pitched wails of a lambo with a tubi....or if you wanted to attract the attention of copps.

 

When I had AWE cat back installed on my Cayman S. AWE was pretty loud and has a pretty aggressive sound. When I had my Europipe installed I find it kinda " quiet " But it surely does sounds good when I let others move my car around the auto shops. I think it sounds pretty " unique and classy ". I don't know this is my first turbo car so I guess I am not use to it yet. C63 AMG, I bought it because it is a sedan with very good sound, torque, and lower profile looking.

 

I wonder if it's because I am in Taipei and it is super noisy here. I had a friend who drove my car in the middle of the night and I was like oh man, my turbo spools up and wow! It sounds very " unique " to me. As I have listened to many exhaust system on youtube for TT and I liked the Europipe so I bought it. Actually, I heard kressieg TT exhaust at idle and It is just blah blah blah and pretty loud but I didn't liked the sound.

 

I was at a Cayman exhaust "mini" shoot-out between AWE and Borla a while back (both great, but boy do they sound different!). I don't know if that AWE is the same version as yours, but it is very much of "medium" loudness, at least in relation to the multiple different Porsche exhausts that I've listened to. If the Cayman AWE and Mercedes C63 BOTH sound louder and more aggressive than EP1, then I suspect more the Euro Pipe is in the "quiet exhaust" category, **relatively** speaking.

If you feel like you want more sound and aggressiveness, maybe you should talk to EP and see if you could get credit for the louder version? Loudness is probably THE most important factor in selecting exhaust and is very personal (that is, there is no right or wrong, just personal pref.). Don't settle for something that you may not be entirely happy with.

 

I agree with you 100% on that cannga. One should never settle on anything they arent 100% completely satisfied with. I also take a no compromise approach on this as we are talking about an expensive P car here and not some cheap buz box.
The only very unusual thing about this is that i have never ever heard of any EP1 buyer ever sell or change an EP for something else. On the other hand I've heard of many that have changed out numerous other systems only to settle on an EP1 or 2 ..but never ever the other way around . Hmmmm....ok, I guess there is always a first though . Maybe list this one in the guiness book of records .

FYI ive heard an AMG C63 at full noise and i didnt at all feel it was any way louder on the outside of the car than mine. It sounded a bit beefier as you would expect from a big v8 but louder....no way!! Maybe its noiser on the inside which is creating the confusion here. I know when i stand on mine anyone on the sidewalk can hear me comming a few hundred metres before which sometimes unfortunately results in a few negative slow down gestures. Any louder and i'd be screwed. Its definately noticeably louder on the oustide than my tubi street was....no question about that. Even my wife commented....women notice these things. She finds the car heaps better iside though...quieter in a much more tolerable way. She couldnt stand the tubi on the inside though. So yes there are differences. It just depends on whether how much noise you want on the inside i think .