Yes! Absolutely!! Until "they" can prove otherwise. The onus is upon "them" at all times to prove they have a better product than what is currently on offer by the OEM. Particularly when it is priced higher....and in this case, substantially higher.

Now....regarding TPC's or Proto's IC's (coated or uncoated) the situation is really no different from a technical data standpoint. I certainly wont have any problem at all (in fact i would be elated) if any of the top end of town AM cooler boys provide tangible data to show their products are superior performing than the OEM's current .2tt cooler product. I'm assuming thats why the AM guys made their coolers to begin with?....to be better than the OEM affering???. But if they cant show they are better and expect buyers to rely upon say so and assurances then i personally think they are having a lend of themselves. Particulary with whats happened here with regard to earls/skands testing. There needs to be some transparency surely.

 

Fair call. Although i'm sure the coating has made a contibution of sorts and, it could very well be the case these IC's ARE superior performing than OEM .2tt's.....as could also be the case with CMS's latest iteration. But yes, lets see some facts on the table first. Needless to say we are talking 1 grand vs 3 and a half + coating costs...or, are they dearer than that??.....doesnt matter at this stage.

 

No problem Earl. I don't believe there is any quatifiable data but just some qualitative observations Karim made when doing some runs. Granted, he was testing at the limits and perhaps that is where they shine the most. I had to search for his post but you can read them here.

 

Hey guys,

I will do my best to log IATs on my car with the TPC/Proto ICs and post them here.
Unfortunately, as I haven't done so with the stock .2 ICs, I won't be able to provide you with a comparo.

I will try to get that done soon.

 

Will that drama ever end?????

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post3122735

 

Great circuit breaker SC! The Proto/TPC coolers are out of the gun now what about the rest of the AM coolers? Still would like to quantify the IAT improvements though. That price is still a stumbling block. Maybe the IAT data can help break that down.

 

OK, update on the intercoolers.

They are not made by DENSO, but by NRF, which is owned by the bigger group JDEUS, as well as DENSO.


You have to search for the NRF part numbers

00030187
00030186


This is the website where you can see the corrispondence with the Porsche Part:

http://www.nrf.eu

you go to "webshop" and type the part number.



Hope this helps!!!




Emanuele

 

Hi Emanuele.......how come ? two years ago you didn't know much and now you know almost everything¡¡¡¡¡¡

Were you shy to answer ? just curioos and you are a very nice young guy.

Rolando

 

Ahah Rolando, you funny guy! I have not been posting much lately....


Generally I don't like to write or talk about stuff I don't know.
With time I read, asked and researched alot about the car, and my recent "mod bug" made me even more greedy about knowledge.

So I tend to post more to share my findings basically.

I like to post here because people are very open-minded and there are the best (in my opinion) tuners in the world that can ask questions and share a bit of their knowledge.
Is good to be here.

On the other hand I still don't post much on the main Porsche forum in Italy, basically because everytime I try to talk about "mods" and other stuff they end up mocking me..
Suffice to say there is only ONE 18g car here and my TT will be the first to run on TIAL turbos I think....People only trusts RUF, RS etc..

This is to say that I'm forced to learn as much as I can on my own AND on this wanderful website.

 

Thanks for stirring the pot! Random dynos without IAT don't really help the cause though. Any insight as to why this same dyno vanished from TPC's website 2 days ago? (or why this particular stock .2 with 516 lbft from the factory is making less torque than a stock 996TT does on a dynojet?). I know PDKs are tricky to dyno, and that may have been the issue here, but something isn't adding up...

As Karim has shown with his recent runs, the TPC/Proto coolers are obviously doing the job and are beautiful well constructed pieces -the question is how much are they doing vice what came on the car from the factory and at what point do they become a necessity. Before and after IATs would be a great place to start!

 

I totally agree with you and happy you're going to have Tial,they are great.

 

ME thinks so too.. May i ask how you know that? Did you experiment with both intakes? If yes what was the difference low and high rpm as well as IATs?

 

Every intercooler has a combination of thermal efficiency and flow...The key factor is to decide what is more necessary for each of us,and find the appropriate cooler...For track racing (with repeated runs) geat thermal efficiency is needed while for a 0-400m race or a dedicated run high flow is more appreciated...

 

Skand. The only intercooler worth using is one that cools the air at least to the IAT's set by the engine designer, and flows no less. The cooler the charge the better the cooler is performing even if the flow does not exceed stock levels.. It doesn't matter if its short pulls or long runs. The cooler the air the denser the charge the better optimum fuel boost and timing settings will be maintained. The turbos will always produce more compresed air than the cylinders can manage hence the presence of valves/gates. Once the charge, hot or cold, hits and fills the cylinders excesss boost is evacuated anyway. The flow of forced air into the coolers must be stalled sufficiently through the turbulators for them to do the job of removing the heat to the desired IAT before the charge reaches the intake valves/cylinders. If the charge passes through the cooler too quickly it is only going to be bled off at the back end at the turbo charger once pressure is realized by the waste gates. The capacity of the engine will ultimately dictate flow. 3.6/3.8 litres is not huge considering the size of the turbos and IC's on the engine feeding it. Bigger is not better particularly if it does not exceed he cooling capability of the stock unit...regardless of how much extra it flows. The new .2tt coolers are a benchmark. If an AM cooler is unable to match the cooling capacity of the benchmark then the rest is all just hot air. Some still like to refer to the old benchmark .1tt cooler but thats finshished. We are up to .2 and soon it will be .3tt (or should i say .1 991tt).

The "game" is never over really... and its up to the AM boys to better the current benchmark. At the outset it would appear evident that TPC Proto has achieved that based on Karims empirical assessment and shotcallers recent dyno figures. But it would be nice to see the reduction of IAT's over the stck .2tt units. Either way, for the money the .2tt coolers should not be sneezed at.....unless you are in Karims situation with 50 deg C..

The game continues....

 

I totally agree with you...I doubt it that there would be data showing better IAT than 997,2TT ICs...And when you take under consideratiuon their price,you have a winner...On the other hand there are ICs with worse thermal efficiency and better flow...and they can be used at cold climates for short runs...(where IAT cant reach values to reduce ignition angle...)
But when Porsche installed these ICs in the GT2RS they sure knew what they were doing...