Intercoolers...997,2 Vs 997,1...Game over...
#242
03-24-2011, 02:49 PM
yes but this is not timing pull, it was programmed that way (9degrees at that rpm range).
I also thought that it was because of the lean AFR just beforehand and i asked and they told me that this is how you get the torque (which i like
). If you make it richer there then you lose some of the torque.
The GT1 engine is prone to torque at around 4.5 to 5k rpm beyond a certain torque level (I have over 900nm) so its at the limit there. The cams, ported heads etc improved that point a lot but then we raised the torque everywhere..
Now with these ICs we can probably try to get it a bit higher - around 11-12 degrees at that point and hopefully 27 at top end.
I also thought that it was because of the lean AFR just beforehand and i asked and they told me that this is how you get the torque (which i like
). If you make it richer there then you lose some of the torque.The GT1 engine is prone to torque at around 4.5 to 5k rpm beyond a certain torque level (I have over 900nm) so its at the limit there. The cams, ported heads etc improved that point a lot but then we raised the torque everywhere..
Now with these ICs we can probably try to get it a bit higher - around 11-12 degrees at that point and hopefully 27 at top end.
Looking from my last run, i think i was correct regarding the overboost feuture in low in gear acceleration.
you can see in the datalogs i have attached that there is an increase of boost where i highlighted in green , then it goes down a little then it increases on the top end.
and what George mentioned regarding timing and lambadas in midrange sheded more light on whats going on.. timing suddenly is decreased in midrange where i marked in red while the overboost is active , then in green at around 5318rpm timing increases and lambada's begin to settle..
in 4th gear lambadas settle down to a more even pace..
That expansion intake manifold is interesting isnt it ??
#243
03-24-2011, 03:01 PM
Yes, it is very interesting althought I have to admit I do not know anything about expansion manifold. My concern focuses on when you are under high load (unfortunately George's data does not indicate load) and that your timing goes down, fuel increases, and boost decreases. That's indicative of some knocking rather than designed programming but I could be completely wrong. If you used some better fuel, I bet you won't see this. Just my opinion. 
#245
03-24-2011, 03:50 PM
i had the pleasure of a ride with skandalis the evening before your run - he said you were coming!
It is dissapointing for me to report that I thought my car was slow after a ride in Skandalis car... Which means that I will not be taking a ride in yours George! Or it will cost me money! You are welcome to go for a spin in mine when you are back in town!! Nice work both of you.
This thread is really an eye opener.
It is dissapointing for me to report that I thought my car was slow after a ride in Skandalis car... Which means that I will not be taking a ride in yours George! Or it will cost me money! You are welcome to go for a spin in mine when you are back in town!! Nice work both of you.
This thread is really an eye opener.
#249
03-24-2011, 06:39 PM
With the 2RS ICs i did not feel much difference but for example with some other ICs i tried a few months ago the difference was so noticeable that i did not even try to log any numbers, i took them off immediately. Those other coolers have been reported to work very well with a large turbo (GT30 etc) as all you would need to do is just compensate with the boost. With vtgs there is a only narrow band of boost efficiency before temperatures start rising stratospherically so you cant really sacrifice too much back pressure.
And with the AM ics's you took off what were the negative differences exactly? I take they flowed alright but could not cool the air enough for your tune set up?
#250
03-25-2011, 02:07 AM
With GT2Rs intercoolers , And a decat exhaust
Fuel is 97 OCtane
#251
03-25-2011, 04:03 PM
speed 21, the .2RS coolers did not have a perceptible difference in flow. The dramatic difference in IATs (>20 degrees cooler) were responsible for the improvement in the 200-300 time that dropped from 13.1sec to 11.8sec which is pretty significant.
The other AM ICs i tried few months ago had so much backpressure that i did not even bother logging IATs as I am already running at the limit of the mafs and vtgs anyway so I would not be able to adjust for the pressure drop. Car felt immediately lazy, as if i had dialled down the boost by 0.1 or 0.2 bar.
In the little i saw in the durametric they were cooling better than my other AM ones but they would not work with my tune with those "small" VTGs.
Hope this is clear?
The other AM ICs i tried few months ago had so much backpressure that i did not even bother logging IATs as I am already running at the limit of the mafs and vtgs anyway so I would not be able to adjust for the pressure drop. Car felt immediately lazy, as if i had dialled down the boost by 0.1 or 0.2 bar.
In the little i saw in the durametric they were cooling better than my other AM ones but they would not work with my tune with those "small" VTGs.
Hope this is clear?
Last edited by GT-TT; 03-25-2011 at 07:46 PM.
#252
03-25-2011, 04:09 PM
My car is a tt but essentially the engine is GT2 as i have the expansion manifold, the GT2 vtgs and also the software was based on a GT2 factory "press car
" translated for the tt ecu.I think you need to send those logs to RS and ask them to fix the issue. Detonation on those GT1 engines can be a b..tch to fix.
Try to exclude though all other possible explanations (sensors, plugs, leaks etc)
Last edited by GT-TT; 03-25-2011 at 07:46 PM.
#253
03-25-2011, 09:30 PM
speed 21, the .2RS coolers did not have a perceptible difference in flow. The dramatic difference in IATs (>20 degrees cooler) were responsible for the improvement in the 200-300 time that dropped from 13.1sec to 11.8sec which is pretty significant.
The other AM ICs i tried few months ago had so much backpressure that i did not even bother logging IATs as I am already running at the limit of the mafs and vtgs anyway so I would not be able to adjust for the pressure drop. Car felt immediately lazy, as if i had dialled down the boost by 0.1 or 0.2 bar.
In the little i saw in the durametric they were cooling better than my other AM ones but they would not work with my tune with those "small" VTGs.
Hope this is clear?
The other AM ICs i tried few months ago had so much backpressure that i did not even bother logging IATs as I am already running at the limit of the mafs and vtgs anyway so I would not be able to adjust for the pressure drop. Car felt immediately lazy, as if i had dialled down the boost by 0.1 or 0.2 bar.
In the little i saw in the durametric they were cooling better than my other AM ones but they would not work with my tune with those "small" VTGs.
Hope this is clear?
.It's interesting that with all your mods you had no flow issues with the .2tt coolers. As you may know the .2tt coolers were quoted by CMS as being of less flow than the .1tt coolers so this sort of confirms to me the flow rates aren't stifling the performance of the car in any way.
Last edited by speed21; 03-25-2011 at 09:34 PM.
#254
03-26-2011, 04:36 AM
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Athens
Age: 47
Posts: 1,671
Rep Power: 133 
What we provide here is real data based on IAt and timeslips of 100-300km...Maybe a lab report differs but real world results are what we care about...Also I havent find any lab report regarding IAT...
#255
03-26-2011, 04:38 AM
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Athens
Age: 47
Posts: 1,671
Rep Power: 133 i had the pleasure of a ride with skandalis the evening before your run - he said you were coming!
It is dissapointing for me to report that I thought my car was slow after a ride in Skandalis car... Which means that I will not be taking a ride in yours George! Or it will cost me money! You are welcome to go for a spin in mine when you are back in town!! Nice work both of you.
This thread is really an eye opener.
It is dissapointing for me to report that I thought my car was slow after a ride in Skandalis car... Which means that I will not be taking a ride in yours George! Or it will cost me money! You are welcome to go for a spin in mine when you are back in town!! Nice work both of you.
This thread is really an eye opener.