Intercoolers...997,2 Vs 997,1...Game over...
#76
11-25-2010, 10:57 AM
Speed 21, totally agree with you. Problem is that, while an awesome community, the forum is sponsor heavy and if you post data showing the inferiorty over a stock/non-vendor solution & cost the vendor money/customers, the PMs start rolling in saying the test/conclusions are invalid, unfair, slanderous, etc and to edit/remove the post or possibly face moderator action.
bob
Last edited by bbywu; 11-25-2010 at 11:01 AM.
#77
11-25-2010, 11:19 AM
This forum is a balance of consumer reports, vendor show, and great input from members. I think without maintaining that balance it would deteriorate. Skand and Earl performed some nice studies with OEM and AM ICs and the results are significant and pretty much "unrefutiated". Should Skand disclose the AM vendors? Not if he made an agreement not to. He has put us all on alert, however. There is some reference data out their now so that others can compare their AM ICs. That's a nice contribution in my book.
#78
11-25-2010, 01:02 PM
This forum is a balance of consumer reports, vendor show, and great input from members. I think without maintaining that balance it would deteriorate. Skand and Earl performed some nice studies with OEM and AM ICs and the results are significant and pretty much "unrefutiated". Should Skand disclose the AM vendors? Not if he made an agreement not to. He has put us all on alert, however. There is some reference data out their now so that others can compare their AM ICs. That's a nice contribution in my book.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message -->
Now we all know that we have to be awake and do our homework before we buy an afterm. IC, and that there is an awesome OEM upgrade available.
This is more than enough I think.
#79
11-25-2010, 03:19 PM
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Athens
Age: 47
Posts: 1,671
Rep Power: 133 
Also,I would like to add the following...These two am ICs i tested (and returned them back) were the only ones that were sent to me...Only these two manufacturers agreed to test their products...none of the others...So it is not fair for them to public their names...since they had the goodwill to refund me ICs...while all others refused to get payed for ICs,then send them to me,test them and if they were worse than OEM to refund them...i have 3 emails from great vendors here,saying that my APR tune is not good!!!so they wont send me ICs because they wont work...(but strange enough OEM and GT2RS work better than theirs...)they wanted to sell me their flash,with upgraded turbos and their ICs so to be fast...This is not good for them...they refused to try to beat 997,1 OEM ICs...And that made me think how many of us did an IAT log before and after installation of any am IC...?how many?durametric gives us the opportinuty to log our cars for each and every mod we do...By doing so we manage to make them perform better and go faster...and thats the purpose of tuning...
#80
11-25-2010, 03:20 PM
this forum is a balance of consumer reports, vendor show, and great input from members. I think without maintaining that balance it would deteriorate. Skand and earl performed some nice studies with oem and am ics and the results are significant and pretty much "unrefutiated". Should skand disclose the am vendors? Not if he made an agreement not to. He has put us all on alert, however. There is some reference data out their now so that others can compare their am ics. That's a nice contribution in my book.
#82
11-25-2010, 08:39 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: GTA, Ontario, Canada
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I must say that after re-reading this thread I'm considering buying these i/cs. I don't know if my stock i/cs ever heat soak but I guess I can datalog in the spring to see what iats I have.
I am planning on upgrading eventually to bigger vtgs. I was planning on getting the i/cs that my tuner sells with the upgraded vtgs. I guess I could see how the car runs with upgraded vtgs and the GT2RS i/cs and see what iats are like. If there's no problem then I would have saved over a couple thousand dollars which I like the sound of. If they don't cut it then I could sell them for say half price and only be out five hundred bucks or so. Comments?
Anyone know the part numbers for these i/cs and where to get them from? I suppose any dealer could order them, right?
I am planning on upgrading eventually to bigger vtgs. I was planning on getting the i/cs that my tuner sells with the upgraded vtgs. I guess I could see how the car runs with upgraded vtgs and the GT2RS i/cs and see what iats are like. If there's no problem then I would have saved over a couple thousand dollars which I like the sound of. If they don't cut it then I could sell them for say half price and only be out five hundred bucks or so. Comments?
Anyone know the part numbers for these i/cs and where to get them from? I suppose any dealer could order them, right?
#83
11-25-2010, 08:50 PM
As i ve stated before i ve tried 2 aftermarket performance intercoolers...(except from GT2rs and 997TT...) Both are well known here bar and plate design,for many hp applications...During 50-230 runs,IAT climbed at 75-76C for both of them...and when cruising WITHOUT load for 10 minutes,IAT refused to go below 45-47C...
This weekend (with GT2Rs ICs)after 15 minutes of spirited driving with 22C ambient,IAT didnt go above 46C...and when load was off during cruise,IAT dropped fast at 31C...
This weekend (with GT2Rs ICs)after 15 minutes of spirited driving with 22C ambient,IAT didnt go above 46C...and when load was off during cruise,IAT dropped fast at 31C...
#84
11-25-2010, 09:26 PM
I must say that after re-reading this thread I'm considering buying these i/cs. I don't know if my stock i/cs ever heat soak but I guess I can datalog in the spring to see what iats I have.
I am planning on upgrading eventually to bigger vtgs. I was planning on getting the i/cs that my tuner sells with the upgraded vtgs. I guess I could see how the car runs with upgraded vtgs and the GT2RS i/cs and see what iats are like. If there's no problem then I would have saved over a couple thousand dollars which I like the sound of. If they don't cut it then I could sell them for say half price and only be out five hundred bucks or so. Comments?
Anyone know the part numbers for these i/cs and where to get them from? I suppose any dealer could order them, right?
I am planning on upgrading eventually to bigger vtgs. I was planning on getting the i/cs that my tuner sells with the upgraded vtgs. I guess I could see how the car runs with upgraded vtgs and the GT2RS i/cs and see what iats are like. If there's no problem then I would have saved over a couple thousand dollars which I like the sound of. If they don't cut it then I could sell them for say half price and only be out five hundred bucks or so. Comments?
Anyone know the part numbers for these i/cs and where to get them from? I suppose any dealer could order them, right?
#85
11-25-2010, 10:35 PM
So then, what was the difference in testing between the 997tt.2 IC's and the 997ttRS.2 IC's? I take you chose the 997.2ttrs ics due to better performance so how much better were they? I wasnt aware these new ttrs.2 IC's were available as a spare part at this early stage?? I dont suppose you have a part number on these?
??? I dont know and I dont believe anyone here knows that for sure untill Skand says so. Id also really like to see the differences in testing found between the tt.2 and tt.2rs coolers, and also the part numbers if possible.
Wow, intriguing and impressive data. Thanks for taking the time to explore, test, and post -- this forum never ceases to amaze me. That said, and with questions of thermal versus pressure efficiency brought into play, am I missing something or this thread begs for a test that answers the question: All these numbers are nice and good, but is the car faster, the engine more "powerful"?
In other words (please correct me if I have misunderstood something), to declare "game over" means you need to prove that the mod leads to great numbers (which you've done, lower IAT's), AND those great numbers lead to a relevant result, such as the engine being more powerful/efficient. The proof then would be, for example. a 60-130 run, or 0-300, or whatever, before and after the intercooler change, in the same car, no? Has this test been posted somewhere and I just haven't seen it?
Otherwise I would have the same type of question as BBYWU's, what if these lower IAT's come at some expense, and overall the engine may not have been better? Thanks again for the very interesting thread; I don't mean to be critical at all, just want to join in the discussion.
In other words (please correct me if I have misunderstood something), to declare "game over" means you need to prove that the mod leads to great numbers (which you've done, lower IAT's), AND those great numbers lead to a relevant result, such as the engine being more powerful/efficient. The proof then would be, for example. a 60-130 run, or 0-300, or whatever, before and after the intercooler change, in the same car, no? Has this test been posted somewhere and I just haven't seen it?
Otherwise I would have the same type of question as BBYWU's, what if these lower IAT's come at some expense, and overall the engine may not have been better? Thanks again for the very interesting thread; I don't mean to be critical at all, just want to join in the discussion.
. Can you indulge us here please??
[quote=cannga;3043567]But... what if you do 5 consecutive 60-130 runs and look at the results of the later runs?
The car with the better intercooler will show its superiority in the latter runs, no?[/quote]
Any answers here too??? Skand you guys did the testing so surely you have a take on this???
Also,I would like to add the following...These two am ICs i tested (and returned them back) were the only ones that were sent to me...
Got it.
Only these two manufacturers agreed to test their products...none of the others...So it is not fair for them to public their names...since they had the goodwill to refund me ICs...
No problem.....So that was agreed prior too? You pay for them...if they dont work you can return them for refund. Is that how it was or were there strings attached such as keeping quiet about any negative findings??
while all others refused to get payed for ICs,then send them to me,test them and if they were worse than OEM to refund them...
Well thats a better scenario wasnt it? You didnt need to pay for them up front?....so....why not test them instead of the ones you had to pay for up front? I dont get this. Can you please explain.
have 3 emails from great vendors here,saying that my APR tune is not good!!!so they wont send me ICs because they wont work...(but strange enough OEM and GT2RS work better than theirs...)
I really dont get what you are trying to say here. Am i right in saying you havent tested them yet to be able to make that call. Or did you test them? And it was then that they refused you?
they wanted to sell me their flash,with upgraded turbos and their ICs so to be fast...This is not good for them...they refused to try to beat 997,1 OEM ICs...
This is very confusing skand. I dont understand what you are saying here at all. I'd really like to though. Can you flesh it all out a bit??
And that made me think how many of us did an IAT log before and after installation of any am IC...?how many?
Im still not clear with this. I can understand testing the IC's but what exactly do you mean by "how many"??
durametric gives us the opportinuty to log our cars for each and every mod we do...By doing so we manage to make them perform better and go faster...and thats the purpose of tuning...
Got it.
Only these two manufacturers agreed to test their products...none of the others...So it is not fair for them to public their names...since they had the goodwill to refund me ICs...
No problem.....So that was agreed prior too? You pay for them...if they dont work you can return them for refund. Is that how it was or were there strings attached such as keeping quiet about any negative findings??
while all others refused to get payed for ICs,then send them to me,test them and if they were worse than OEM to refund them...
Well thats a better scenario wasnt it? You didnt need to pay for them up front?....so....why not test them instead of the ones you had to pay for up front? I dont get this. Can you please explain
.have 3 emails from great vendors here,saying that my APR tune is not good!!!so they wont send me ICs because they wont work...(but strange enough OEM and GT2RS work better than theirs...)
I really dont get what you are trying to say here. Am i right in saying you havent tested them yet to be able to make that call. Or did you test them? And it was then that they refused you?
they wanted to sell me their flash,with upgraded turbos and their ICs so to be fast...This is not good for them...they refused to try to beat 997,1 OEM ICs...
This is very confusing skand. I dont understand what you are saying here at all. I'd really like to though. Can you flesh it all out a bit??
And that made me think how many of us did an IAT log before and after installation of any am IC...?how many?
Im still not clear with this. I can understand testing the IC's but what exactly do you mean by "how many"??
durametric gives us the opportinuty to log our cars for each and every mod we do...By doing so we manage to make them perform better and go faster...and thats the purpose of tuning...
Which set skand actually has on his car i have no idea. Can you clue us up on this skand?? I see this question of the stock .2tt and .2ttRS coolers has come up throughout the pages of this thread and there has again been no answers to clarify this point.
Im guessing the RS coolers are the same as the .2tt coolers as Skand says he has them on his car now. Is this correct Skand?
#86
11-26-2010, 11:10 AM
[QUOTE=speed21;3050540]So i take you physically had a set of 997ttRS.2 coolers???
So then, what was the difference in testing between the 997tt.2 IC's and the 997ttRS.2 IC's? I take you chose the 997.2ttrs ics due to better performance so how much better were they? I wasnt aware these new ttrs.2 IC's were available as a spare part at this early stage?? I dont suppose you have a part number on these?
??? I dont know and I dont believe anyone here knows that for sure untill Skand says so. Id also really like to see the differences in testing found between the tt.2 and tt.2rs coolers, and also the part numbers if possible.
Very relevant stuff.... Would really love to get some feedback and/or clear answers on the above. Can you indulge us here please??
hey paul,
so here is he link i found that the gt2 rs parts havent showed up yet from suncoast dated 9/23
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-rs-parts.html
not sure when this post was posted
So then, what was the difference in testing between the 997tt.2 IC's and the 997ttRS.2 IC's? I take you chose the 997.2ttrs ics due to better performance so how much better were they? I wasnt aware these new ttrs.2 IC's were available as a spare part at this early stage?? I dont suppose you have a part number on these?
??? I dont know and I dont believe anyone here knows that for sure untill Skand says so. Id also really like to see the differences in testing found between the tt.2 and tt.2rs coolers, and also the part numbers if possible.
Very relevant stuff.... Would really love to get some feedback and/or clear answers on the above
. Can you indulge us here please??But... what if you do 5 consecutive 60-130 runs and look at the results of the later runs?
The car with the better intercooler will show its superiority in the latter runs, no?[/quote]
Any answers here too??? Skand you guys did the testing so surely you have a take on this???
Ok....cool.. got that very last part.
Ronnie hopefully skand will indulge us all some answers on this key point. I still arent clear at all whether the ttRS.2 coolers are available. Then, there is the testing comparison vs the regular stock tt.2 coolers which im sure we'd all love to see as well if skand has it. The findings would be very interesting.
Which set skand actually has on his car i have no idea. Can you clue us up on this skand?? I see this question of the stock .2tt and .2ttRS coolers has come up throughout the pages of this thread and there has again been no answers to clarify this point. Im guessing the RS coolers are the same as the .2tt coolers as Skand says he has them on his car now. Is this correct Skand?
The car with the better intercooler will show its superiority in the latter runs, no?[/quote]
Any answers here too??? Skand you guys did the testing so surely you have a take on this???
Ok....cool.. got that very last part.
Ronnie hopefully skand will indulge us all some answers on this key point. I still arent clear at all whether the ttRS.2 coolers are available. Then, there is the testing comparison vs the regular stock tt.2 coolers which im sure we'd all love to see as well if skand has it. The findings would be very interesting.
Which set skand actually has on his car i have no idea. Can you clue us up on this skand?? I see this question of the stock .2tt and .2ttRS coolers has come up throughout the pages of this thread and there has again been no answers to clarify this point.
Im guessing the RS coolers are the same as the .2tt coolers as Skand says he has them on his car now. Is this correct Skand?so here is he link i found that the gt2 rs parts havent showed up yet from suncoast dated 9/23
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-rs-parts.html
not sure when this post was posted
#87
11-26-2010, 12:41 PM
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Athens
Age: 47
Posts: 1,671
Rep Power: 133
Speed21....
1)GT2Rs ICs and 997,2TT ICs are the same...end of confusion ...
2)When i was out in the market for ICs,I asked every vendor here for am ICs...They told me their products were the best and are far better than OEM...So I asked what if they are not?Would you refund me my money?Only two accepted that...all others said no...You buy them,you keep them no matter if they were worse...You see almost noone logs IAT with stock and am ICs to see differences...
Hope I helped you my friend...
1)GT2Rs ICs and 997,2TT ICs are the same...end of confusion ...
2)When i was out in the market for ICs,I asked every vendor here for am ICs...They told me their products were the best and are far better than OEM...So I asked what if they are not?Would you refund me my money?Only two accepted that...all others said no...You buy them,you keep them no matter if they were worse...You see almost noone logs IAT with stock and am ICs to see differences...
Hope I helped you my friend...
#88
11-26-2010, 02:22 PM
PNs are:
997.110.639.70 Left Intercooler -- US MSRP $733.98
997.110.640.70 Right Intercooler -- US MSRP $733.98
you can get them from Sonnen Porsche just above cost for ~$450 USD each
.2, new Turbo S, GT2 RS...all the same cooler.
If you're unsure, the new cooler has 14 rows, the old .1 has 11.
997.110.639.70 Left Intercooler -- US MSRP $733.98
997.110.640.70 Right Intercooler -- US MSRP $733.98
you can get them from Sonnen Porsche just above cost for ~$450 USD each
.2, new Turbo S, GT2 RS...all the same cooler.
If you're unsure, the new cooler has 14 rows, the old .1 has 11.
Last edited by earl3; 11-26-2010 at 02:25 PM.
#89
11-26-2010, 02:32 PM
Basic Sponsor
Some GT2 RS pieces are becoming available, but only stock in Germany at the moment. If you're looking for something, let me know if I can help.
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