Your thread here has been VERY helpful. I read Earl's thread on the 996 board about installing these. Are they any easier to install in the 997tt or is it the same ducting that requires some modification?

 

Thanks Ronnie. Suncoast has chimed in to say they can get them so....alls good now.

Thanks skand. Sorry to labor the point in my post to you but I saw others had the same confusion so i felt by going the full nine yards everyone would hopefully get a clear answer this time. I know english is your second language but I am now crystal clear thanks, and ...If i could speak Greek as well as you can speak English id be a very happy man.

I have some further questions but ill come back later on those if you don't mind.

Thanks Earl. Great info....especially on where to get them at the special price. Btw do you have an APR tune too?

Thanks and im guessing these will become a stock item soon. Are you guys able to compete at the 450?

 

I guess the only other thing to know would be how well these will work with higher ambient temperatures and higher hp cars. Heck, if no-one can provide that data maybe I will provide it b/c a pair of these are in my future!

 

Ok skand here we go..

I was hoping to drill down a bit more into your testing if you don't mind. There were questions asked earlier on that have been left outstanding so, in my words.. what did the butt dyno feel?? Could you feel anything at all after the change outs? And, if you could feel anything was there any difference between the non genuine and genuine 997tt.2 rs coolers or did the car feel like it was performing the same as when you had the .1 oems in regardless of what intercoolers you had in. ? I guess what im saying here is was there anything outside of the data on the IAT's that gave a tangible benefit (that you could physically feel) to the performance of the car.

The other question is did the larger capacity of the genuine and non genuine intecoolers detract from the existing performance of your car in any way.? For example: Did they create any additional lag. Did they alter the power delivery of your car.....making it less smoother, less linear, a bit more or less peaky...etc etc. I ask this mainly knowing you are unable to change any of the tune settings on the APR so am assuming there has to be a negative trade off at one point somewhere.

I know you said before some of the other aftermarket intercooler suppliers didn't want to get involved outside of selling you a non refundable product on the basis your car had the APR tune...which has effectively been designed to operate at its best using the stock components. So, forgetting about any improvements in Vbox times that you may or may not be able to produce at a later stage, did your ic puchase enhance the drivability and performance of the car. Or are you left scratching your head trying to figure out whether it was all really worth it....forgetting again the data....which is accepted shows tangible IAT improvements.

Think about it and let us know. Give us some comprehensive details though and not just a blanket answer thanks. Im sure many here would like to know exactly what they are likely to feel in the seat of their pants for the time money and trouble required to change the ics (using the oem rS units).

 

There's a lot of discussion about AM IC vendors not doing testing or at least not publishing test data. Just want to say Proto does his homework. This is a test of an unamed AM 3.5" IC vs Proto's older 4.5" version.


"The 3.5" intercoolers are running 66% efficiency at 53.6degF/12degC ambient in a typical 600-700hp application. This is calculated at 1.35bar making 229.2degF outlet from the turbo and 45degc/113degF going into the engine. These were road tested from 60-300km/hr, so they had great airflow due to the high speeds, but the intercoolers still got pretty hot.
On the dyno, our 4.5's at 59degF/15degC ambient, 231degF turbo outlet and 84.2degF going into the engine produced an 85% efficiency rating that can only get better on the road with better airflow. That's a huge gain right there!!! That's 28% increase in efficiency and significantly lower inlet air temps.

Customer feedback has been outstanding, providing better throttle response due to the lower pressure drop, and better overall power after repeated runs where the 3.5’s and stock intercoolers really fall off. In 200-300km/hr tests, we’ve shown an improvement of 3.5 seconds compared to identical cars with other aftermarket 3.5” intercoolers."

 

is this using the TPC core(blitzkrieg ?) in the 4.5" intercooler? was there any data on the turbo size?

 

the stock coolers Flow very well so they dont restrict flow, so they are not something that will rob you of power per say. Hell Divextreme ran a setup with two stock 996tt coolers welded together for a while.

what we will see is a possible slight increase on the first run (non heat soaked components) and then it will progressive create a gap in performance as the better intercooler keeps temperature in check in back to back runs over and over.

now this would be different if the stock cooler didn't cool that well AND they flowed like crap, but they flow a good bit of air through them to not rob a large amount of power from the system.

so if there is a difference in the performance of the 60-130 i would expect it in the .1-.2second range on the initial run but after that on repeated run with no cooldown id expect to see .5second differences on say run 4-6

 

This was when he was selling his 4.5" ICs which are different than the current TPC cores. I just pulled the statement directy from an ebay listing he has. I'm sure he has data on his current ICs as well but my point is that Todd K. does the testing on the things he sells.

 

Well...Until now my(borrowed) rear tires are not the correct size...they are 315/25/19...instead of 305/30/19...Hopefully at the end of next week i will have a set of correct size and vbox/log the car with durametric...With same tires and wheels as log of 997,1IC log...Then i will have safe results about acceleration times...IATs results are very clear and show differences...

 

Ok. And, to be expected after numerous identical pulls the performance would possibly wane a tad as things retained heat but most street driving doesn't really involve repeated identical acceleration pulls. So, if you can achieve the times you are seeking on the first few pulls...that is when you are chasing times, then the intercoolers dont really become a huge issue as such to warrant changing out. Its only if the cooler performance deteriorated substantially during the initial few high speed full power overtakes (or pulls) that youd get all that bothered enough to change them.

Eitherway i think what you are referring to is more relavent in cars that have tunes that can be further adjusted to take advantages of any capacity changes in IC's or alterations to turbos etc. In skands case he doesnt have that luxury with the APR therefore im wondering what the downsides are with him changing the IC's if any. Skand will have to answer there.

Yes thats what i thought as well. I've pm'd Karim (k_ddsl) to see if he can chime in and add some shape to this thread by enlightening us of his experiences in changing out his super duper 997tt.2/997tt.2RS intercoolers for the Todd K coolers. I know he was chasing a reduction in IAT's to improve his accel times and the last i heard he had changed up to the ceramic coated. I'm sure he will have some comparison data to show us all.

Skand you didnt answer me yet. Thats ok, when you are ready .

 

I am going to make a very very guarded comment here.
As most know, I have a 997.2 TT.
Durametric does not function fully as yet with our cars so I was unable to log IATs before and after.
What I can provide you with are driving impressions. Because of the lack of empirical data, I chose to remain out of this thread until now. However, I now feel that I should put forward my $0.2 in the interest of fairness to AM I/Cs. Not all AM I/Cs are alike.

Obviously, I started out with stock I/Cs. I then upgraded to the Protomotive/TPC racing 5" hybrid coolers. By error, I received the old 4.5" coolers from Todd K. When the error was discovered, Todd sent me the 5" coolers, but, on the advice of CJV, I had them sent to Swaintech for heat dissipating ceramic coating prior to shipping them to Kuwait.

In short, three coolers went on my car at different times:
1- Stock
2- Proto's old 4.5" coolers
3- Proto/TPC's current 5" hybrids with SwainTech Ceramic coating.

My turbos are stock vtgs, unmodified. I have the Softronic Tune, BMC filter and Europipe Exhaust.

My impressions are as follows:
1- I have not felt any power gains or losses from installing the Intercoolers, nor has the spooling speed become noticeably different.
2- Heat soak and timing retard used to hit me after two to three strong pulls (up to and 300 kmph) when I had the stock I/Cs. The car became noticeably slower.
3- The current I/Cs, the 5" Hybrids with the ceramic coating are enabling me to run 5, 6 or 7 full throttle 300 km runs without noticing the power drop much.
4- When heat soaked, as all I/Cs get after repeated runs, the new I/Cs have a shorter cool down period and I can be off again.

From these impressions, and knowing what I know now, would I still buy the Proto/TPC I/Cs if given the choice again? Yes I would.

Disclaimer: Although I have run my car with the old I/Cs and the new ones countless times and I have developed somewhat intimate knowledge of the behavior of my car, I have no verifiable empirical data to support my claims. These are driving impressions, that's all. Take them for whatever they're worth.

 

Thanks for chiming in Karim. I assume we're talking about ambient temperatures in the mid-30s celsius for the heat soak after 2 to 3 runs with stock ics, right?
If you were doing runs up to 200km/h did you notice any soak with the stock i/c?

 

Hey Asher,

Ambients were in the high 20s early 30s.
Stock I/Cs were soaking after about 3 hard runs. I'm talking standstill to 300 + kph back to back.
With my new I/Cs, it takes longer for them to soak and, once soaked, they cool back down quicker than the stock ones used to.

Hope this helps.

 

very helpful, thanks. Would the stock ones soak at less than 200km/hr?

 

help ? price to install a TPC on my 997S ??